Today I received a $320 ticket for failing to stop at a red light. I was driving on the highway, the light turned yellow and I didn't slow down in time. I did slow down and come to a complete stop, I was partially in the intersection and couldn't back up due to other vehicles behind me so I carefully proceeded through as to not block traffic going through the lights; assuming the OPP officer caught this on his dash cam his video would reflect that I did come to a complete stop. Could this help my defense? And is it possible to use the defense of due diligence on a failure to stop at a red light? I had a clean driving record up until today. Clearly the slowing down and coming to a complete stop should prove that mens rea was not present and I didn't enter the intersection with the intention of going through the red light. How can I fight this ticket? Is it even worth fighting or should I just pay the $320 and be happy I didn't get charged the maximum $1000.
Today I received a $320 ticket for failing to stop at a red light.
I was driving on the highway, the light turned yellow and I didn't slow down in time. I did slow down and come to a complete stop, I was partially in the intersection and couldn't back up due to other vehicles behind me so I carefully proceeded through as to not block traffic going through the lights; assuming the OPP officer caught this on his dash cam his video would reflect that I did come to a complete stop.
Could this help my defense? And is it possible to use the defense of due diligence on a failure to stop at a red light? I had a clean driving record up until today.
Clearly the slowing down and coming to a complete stop should prove that mens rea was not present and I didn't enter the intersection with the intention of going through the red light. How can I fight this ticket? Is it even worth fighting or should I just pay the $320 and be happy I didn't get charged the maximum $1000.
Did you receive a ticket in the mail or was it hand delivered by an officer? Plead not guilty and request a trial with the officer present. Once you get your notice of trial, you can request disclosure (officers notes, make model serial numbers of all equipment involved, any pics video audio, any witess statements). Once you get that info post it here.
Did you receive a ticket in the mail or was it hand delivered by an officer?
Plead not guilty and request a trial with the officer present. Once you get your notice of trial, you can request disclosure (officers notes, make model serial numbers of all equipment involved, any pics video audio, any witess statements). Once you get that info post it here.
Failing to stop for a red light is an absolute liability offense. That means you either stopped for the red light or you didn't. That will be the basis of your trial. Either one or the other. Keep that in mind as you progress.
Failing to stop for a red light is an absolute liability offense. That means you either stopped for the red light or you didn't. That will be the basis of your trial. Either one or the other.
Mens rea does not matter for provincial offences. This is not a criminal matter. How far into the intersection were you? If you were just a little across the line and, say, blocking part of the pedestrian crossing area, many police officers wouldn't bother you. Unfortunately, the drivers behind you weren't polite enough to give you room to back up (also, unfortunately, impoliteness is not an offence). Once you actually proceeded through the intersection, however, you eliminated any benefit of the doubt the officer may have given you. For what it's worth, I hate lights on highways, such as Highway 7. Yes, the yellow is longer the higher the speed limit, but those "can I stop safely if I brake now" decisions are much more difficult to make.
Mens rea does not matter for provincial offences. This is not a criminal matter. How far into the intersection were you? If you were just a little across the line and, say, blocking part of the pedestrian crossing area, many police officers wouldn't bother you. Unfortunately, the drivers behind you weren't polite enough to give you room to back up (also, unfortunately, impoliteness is not an offence). Once you actually proceeded through the intersection, however, you eliminated any benefit of the doubt the officer may have given you.
For what it's worth, I hate lights on highways, such as Highway 7. Yes, the yellow is longer the higher the speed limit, but those "can I stop safely if I brake now" decisions are much more difficult to make.
I was passed the pedestrian crossing area. In this case is my best option to select option number 2 on the ticket and meet with the JP to try and bring the ticket down?
Zatota wrote:
Mens rea does not matter for provincial offences. This is not a criminal matter. How far into the intersection were you? If you were just a little across the line and, say, blocking part of the pedestrian crossing area, many police officers wouldn't bother you. Unfortunately, the drivers behind you weren't polite enough to give you room to back up (also, unfortunately, impoliteness is not an offence). Once you actually proceeded through the intersection, however, you eliminated any benefit of the doubt the officer may have given you.
For what it's worth, I hate lights on highways, such as Highway 7. Yes, the yellow is longer the higher the speed limit, but those "can I stop safely if I brake now" decisions are much more difficult to make.
I was passed the pedestrian crossing area.
In this case is my best option to select option number 2 on the ticket and meet with the JP to try and bring the ticket down?
I was passed the pedestrian crossing area. In this case is my best option to select option number 2 on the ticket and meet with the JP to try and bring the ticket down? I would pick option 3 and plead not guilty and then request disclosure, this keeps all your options open. If you decide after looking at the disclosure that you want to cut a deal for a reduction you can always do that the day of your trial. Also I think there maybe a fatal error on your ticket because of the incorrect fine amount. There has been some new recent case law on the subject so I'm hoping some others will chime in on that subject, but if that is still a fatal error then you may be able to get the ticket tossed.
AlphaDog wrote:
Zatota wrote:
Mens rea does not matter for provincial offences. This is not a criminal matter. How far into the intersection were you? If you were just a little across the line and, say, blocking part of the pedestrian crossing area, many police officers wouldn't bother you. Unfortunately, the drivers behind you weren't polite enough to give you room to back up (also, unfortunately, impoliteness is not an offence). Once you actually proceeded through the intersection, however, you eliminated any benefit of the doubt the officer may have given you.
For what it's worth, I hate lights on highways, such as Highway 7. Yes, the yellow is longer the higher the speed limit, but those "can I stop safely if I brake now" decisions are much more difficult to make.
I was passed the pedestrian crossing area.
In this case is my best option to select option number 2 on the ticket and meet with the JP to try and bring the ticket down?
I would pick option 3 and plead not guilty and then request disclosure, this keeps all your options open. If you decide after looking at the disclosure that you want to cut a deal for a reduction you can always do that the day of your trial. Also I think there maybe a fatal error on your ticket because of the incorrect fine amount. There has been some new recent case law on the subject so I'm hoping some others will chime in on that subject, but if that is still a fatal error then you may be able to get the ticket tossed.
I was passed the pedestrian crossing area. In this case is my best option to select option number 2 on the ticket and meet with the JP to try and bring the ticket down? I would pick option 3 and plead not guilty and then request disclosure, this keeps all your options open. If you decide after looking at the disclosure that you want to cut a deal for a reduction you can always do that the day of your trial. Also I think there maybe a fatal error on your ticket because of the incorrect fine amount. There has been some new recent case law on the subject so I'm hoping some others will chime in on that subject, but if that is still a fatal error then you may be able to get the ticket tossed. How can you tell that the fine amount is incorrect?
daggx wrote:
AlphaDog wrote:
Zatota wrote:
Mens rea does not matter for provincial offences. This is not a criminal matter. How far into the intersection were you? If you were just a little across the line and, say, blocking part of the pedestrian crossing area, many police officers wouldn't bother you. Unfortunately, the drivers behind you weren't polite enough to give you room to back up (also, unfortunately, impoliteness is not an offence). Once you actually proceeded through the intersection, however, you eliminated any benefit of the doubt the officer may have given you.
For what it's worth, I hate lights on highways, such as Highway 7. Yes, the yellow is longer the higher the speed limit, but those "can I stop safely if I brake now" decisions are much more difficult to make.
I was passed the pedestrian crossing area.
In this case is my best option to select option number 2 on the ticket and meet with the JP to try and bring the ticket down?
I would pick option 3 and plead not guilty and then request disclosure, this keeps all your options open. If you decide after looking at the disclosure that you want to cut a deal for a reduction you can always do that the day of your trial. Also I think there maybe a fatal error on your ticket because of the incorrect fine amount. There has been some new recent case law on the subject so I'm hoping some others will chime in on that subject, but if that is still a fatal error then you may be able to get the ticket tossed.
How can you tell that the fine amount is incorrect?
The set fines for each offence are listed on the Ontario Court of Justice website: http://www.ontariocourts.ca/ocj/how-do- ... hedule-43/ Then you have to add in the victim surcharge which is listed here: https://www.ontario.ca/laws/regulation/000161 Then on top of that there should be a $5 court fee listed here in the table of costs: https://www.ontario.ca/laws/regulation/900945 So for a red light ticket you should have a set fine of $260 plus a victim surcharge of $60 plus a court fee of $5 for a total of $325.
AlphaDog wrote:
How can you tell that the fine amount is incorrect?
The set fines for each offence are listed on the Ontario Court of Justice website:
The set fines for each offence are listed on the Ontario Court of Justice website: http://www.ontariocourts.ca/ocj/how-do- ... hedule-43/ Then you have to add in the victim surcharge which is listed here: https://www.ontario.ca/laws/regulation/000161 Then on top of that there should be a $5 court fee listed here in the table of costs: https://www.ontario.ca/laws/regulation/900945 So for a red light ticket you should have a set fine of $260 plus a victim surcharge of $60 plus a court fee of $5 for a total of $325. I read in another thread that I have to let the ticket default for the ticket to be quashed because if I bring it to court the justice will just fix the error? He said that the ticket needs to default and if the justice notices the error they will quash it, and if they don't catch the error I would have to appeal it. Any truth to this?
daggx wrote:
AlphaDog wrote:
How can you tell that the fine amount is incorrect?
The set fines for each offence are listed on the Ontario Court of Justice website:
So for a red light ticket you should have a set fine of $260 plus a victim surcharge of $60 plus a court fee of $5 for a total of $325.
I read in another thread that I have to let the ticket default for the ticket to be quashed because if I bring it to court the justice will just fix the error? He said that the ticket needs to default and if the justice notices the error they will quash it, and if they don't catch the error I would have to appeal it. Any truth to this?
The set fines for each offence are listed on the Ontario Court of Justice website: http://www.ontariocourts.ca/ocj/how-do- ... hedule-43/ Then you have to add in the victim surcharge which is listed here: https://www.ontario.ca/laws/regulation/000161 Then on top of that there should be a $5 court fee listed here in the table of costs: https://www.ontario.ca/laws/regulation/900945 So for a red light ticket you should have a set fine of $260 plus a victim surcharge of $60 plus a court fee of $5 for a total of $325. I read in another thread that I have to let the ticket default for the ticket to be quashed because if I bring it to court the justice will just fix the error? He said that the ticket needs to default and if the justice notices the error they will quash it, and if they don't catch the error I would have to appeal it. Any truth to this? And would the $5 court fee still be on a ticket given directly by a police officer at the scene?
AlphaDog wrote:
daggx wrote:
AlphaDog wrote:
How can you tell that the fine amount is incorrect?
The set fines for each offence are listed on the Ontario Court of Justice website:
So for a red light ticket you should have a set fine of $260 plus a victim surcharge of $60 plus a court fee of $5 for a total of $325.
I read in another thread that I have to let the ticket default for the ticket to be quashed because if I bring it to court the justice will just fix the error? He said that the ticket needs to default and if the justice notices the error they will quash it, and if they don't catch the error I would have to appeal it. Any truth to this?
And would the $5 court fee still be on a ticket given directly by a police officer at the scene?
Back story: got a fail to stop at red light ticket, set fine $260, total payable $320. Was told in my previous thread that this was incorrect, it should be $325, it appears the court fee is missing. So my questions: 1) will there be a court fee in the ticket even if it is presented by the police officer at the scene? 2) should I just not respond to the ticket, let it default and then appeal it? 3) does anyone have any experience with doing this? Thanks!
Back story: got a fail to stop at red light ticket, set fine $260, total payable $320. Was told in my previous thread that this was incorrect, it should be $325, it appears the court fee is missing.
So my questions:
1) will there be a court fee in the ticket even if it is presented by the police officer at the scene?
2) should I just not respond to the ticket, let it default and then appeal it?
3) does anyone have any experience with doing this?
1) Every ticket has a $5 court fee included in the total payable. Even if you just plea guilty and pay it, the court still processes it. 2) That is the strategy with these types of fatal errors. Although there is some new case law which could affect it, I think the fine amounts being wrong are still considered fatal errors. 3) There have been many threads on the forum, just search fatal error.
1) Every ticket has a $5 court fee included in the total payable. Even if you just plea guilty and pay it, the court still processes it.
2) That is the strategy with these types of fatal errors. Although there is some new case law which could affect it, I think the fine amounts being wrong are still considered fatal errors.
3) There have been many threads on the forum, just search fatal error.
Here is the recent case about ticket errors: courts-and-procedure/cops-can-fix-small ... t7933.html In my opinion, an incorrect set fine amount would be considered minor and it is not prejudicial towards the defendant in preparing a full answer and defence to the charge. With the new case, the police officer can correct the set fine amount on the certificate of offence (his copy of the ticket) and still submit it validly to the courthouse. This means if you do not respond, you will be found guilty. Upon appeal, you will need to be able to argue how an incorrect set fine amount is prejudicial towards your ability to make a full answer and defence - this will be difficult.
In my opinion, an incorrect set fine amount would be considered minor and it is not prejudicial towards the defendant in preparing a full answer and defence to the charge.
With the new case, the police officer can correct the set fine amount on the certificate of offence (his copy of the ticket) and still submit it validly to the courthouse. This means if you do not respond, you will be found guilty. Upon appeal, you will need to be able to argue how an incorrect set fine amount is prejudicial towards your ability to make a full answer and defence - this will be difficult.
The best course of action in this case might be to file for a court date and request disclosure including a copy of the certificate of offence the officer submitted to the court. If the copy that was submitted to the court has the same error as your copy then you can skip your court date and force a default hearing. If the officer fixed the problem on the copy he submitted to the court then we can still go over the disclosure and look for another avenue of defence.
The best course of action in this case might be to file for a court date and request disclosure including a copy of the certificate of offence the officer submitted to the court. If the copy that was submitted to the court has the same error as your copy then you can skip your court date and force a default hearing. If the officer fixed the problem on the copy he submitted to the court then we can still go over the disclosure and look for another avenue of defence.
Jsherk I took your words to heart about asking for disclosure and i am attempting to use your template for asking for all the things you ask for. I went into court today in response to my Notice Of Constitutional Question and was stripped down by the judge saying to me, " You are using the Notice Of Constitutional Question wrong. It's a very complicated area and is used for questioning the law. What you want is to execute a Charter Challenge. But I can tell you now, you're probably not going to get what you're asking for. If you're still going to do a Charter Challenge, you're going to need case law. But, everything you're trying has been done before and I don't think you're going get anything special here." So, I guess I'm asking if you have any proof that your template for getting disclose has worked. I'm hopeful that what you have wrote down here is coming from a place of experience and not speculation. I'm getting the feeling that things like requesting Industry Canada certifications are just going to be laughed out of court. Can you instill some confidence in this process of defense? Thank you.
Jsherk
I took your words to heart about asking for disclosure and i am attempting to use your template for asking for all the things you ask for. I went into court today in response to my Notice Of Constitutional Question and was stripped down by the judge saying to me, " You are using the Notice Of Constitutional Question wrong. It's a very complicated area and is used for questioning the law. What you want is to execute a Charter Challenge. But I can tell you now, you're probably not going to get what you're asking for. If you're still going to do a Charter Challenge, you're going to need case law. But, everything you're trying has been done before and I don't think you're going get anything special here."
So, I guess I'm asking if you have any proof that your template for getting disclose has worked. I'm hopeful that what you have wrote down here is coming from a place of experience and not speculation. I'm getting the feeling that things like requesting Industry Canada certifications are just going to be laughed out of court.
Can you instill some confidence in this process of defense?
Jsherk I took your words to heart about asking for disclosure and i am attempting to use your template for asking for all the things you ask for. I went into court today in response to my Notice Of Constitutional Question and was stripped down by the judge saying to me, " You are using the Notice Of Constitutional Question wrong. It's a very complicated area and is used for questioning the law. What you want is to execute a Charter Challenge. But I can tell you now, you're probably not going to get what you're asking for. If you're still going to do a Charter Challenge, you're going to need case law. But, everything you're trying has been done before and I don't think you're going get anything special here." So, I guess I'm asking if you have any proof that your template for getting disclose has worked. I'm hopeful that what you have wrote down here is coming from a place of experience and not speculation. I'm getting the feeling that things like requesting Industry Canada certifications are just going to be laughed out of court. Can you instill some confidence in this process of defense? Thank you.
Jsherk
I took your words to heart about asking for disclosure and i am attempting to use your template for asking for all the things you ask for. I went into court today in response to my Notice Of Constitutional Question and was stripped down by the judge saying to me, " You are using the Notice Of Constitutional Question wrong. It's a very complicated area and is used for questioning the law. What you want is to execute a Charter Challenge. But I can tell you now, you're probably not going to get what you're asking for. If you're still going to do a Charter Challenge, you're going to need case law. But, everything you're trying has been done before and I don't think you're going get anything special here."
So, I guess I'm asking if you have any proof that your template for getting disclose has worked. I'm hopeful that what you have wrote down here is coming from a place of experience and not speculation. I'm getting the feeling that things like requesting Industry Canada certifications are just going to be laughed out of court.
Can you instill some confidence in this process of defense?
ok well here is my story .. I had an old megaphone from alarm system and decided since my horns on my car were rusted and were not making a loud enough sound.. i connected the alarm megaphone to the horn wires and it sounded very cool. depending on how log i hold my horn down for . due to the size of the power horn.. and mhy car being a Honda.. meaning no room under the hood i had installed it…
So I got this ticket because the lady behind me was WAY too close and I had to back up before getting hit by another car and dented her bumper.
Offense is stated as follows: Start from Stopped position - Not in Safety
Highway Traffic Act 142 (2)
First of all, I don't really know what that means and if it says that I was not in safety (which I wasn't) why am I getting a ticket? And why didn't the…
This is my first time ever getting a ticket and I am completely frustrated and don't know what to do.
On July 7th, I was driving to work, taking my usual route and it's about a 15 minute drive for me. At the first red light, I noticed I had a bit of time thanks to the countdown so I quickly reached into my bag to grab a lip balm. I noticed I had brought the wrong one so I just kept it out and…
It happened last December. I was facing north in the middle of the intersection at Donmills and McNicoll waiting to make a left turn. There was a big white van on the other side of McNicoll facing south waiting to turn left too. When the light changed to amber, I checked and the road was clear, there was no upcoming vehicle. So slowly I made the left turn. Suddenly a small car dashed up from…
First off, the most similar case and HELPFUL thread has y far come from neo333: a great read and very similar and relevant to my case and of course ticketcombat.com
I'll cole's notes this so that it can be concise and can recap my experience with disclosure, notes and failed stay request and adjourned court date. Thank you for reading and leaving your opinion.
I got a notice in the mail that trial is set four weeks from today, so it's time to request disclosure. I have zero chance of getting an 11b since trial is less than two months after the offense date and the officer did not reduce the charge. I really want to try and create delays on the trial, to reduce the chance of the officer showing up on multiple occasions. Is there any known loop-holes…
Got my first ticket last Thursday and I have a couple of questions. I was driving westbound on Moore St. (west of Bayview) and made a left onto a residential street at a 4-way stop sign. It was my first time driving through that area - was driving my girlfriend to a wisdom tooth surgery.
The police were set up to catch people, as that intersection had a no left turn sign from 7-9 am (buses…
I was in a light collision with a police vehicle last November and will be having a trial by the end of the month. What happened was I was pulled over. I stopped and kept my right signal on. The cop car then tried to pull behind me when he was on my left but 2 cars pulled behind me. The cop wasn't too smart and instead of waiting for the two cars to pull away, he drove forward and boxed all the…
A friend of mine (who is from China and with no knowledge of English at all) asked me to interpret for him on court.
He got pulled over by a stealth patrol car last october, got 3 tickets (fail to show insurance card, using cell phones and fail to stop on right for emergency vehicle) , court date is next week. He told me his insurance expired for less than a month and other charges are false…
My husband was driving my car and passed a school bus with flashing lights. He did not realize this until he was past the bus. The driver honked at him but there were no cops nearby and he didn't get pulled over. I believe the driver or witnesses reported this and we got issued a ticket in the mail. The ticket is under my name as the registered owner: charged with Fail to Stop for…
I have just got a ticket (Fail to yield on through highway) and by the way it's me first ticket and this is how I got it.
Me driving in a residential neighborhood maybe 10-15 km/h approaching a stop sign completely stopped at the stop sign started moving again turning right and out of nowhere I was hit by this van. he went directly to the driver's side fender,wheel, and bumper. Since it was my…
Hi I'm new to this forum but I hope I'm bringing you all good news.
I recently wrote a book short titled ABUSE OF POWER
This book is all about how the Ontario government broke the law to enact the new street racing legislation.
To start with the denial of the right to remain innocent until proven guilty was enacted without due process under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. How it wasn't done…
So i lent my car to my gf the other day and she went to drop her friend at a Go station but when she was turning left into the parking lot at the Go station a bus hits her from behind while she was turning so now my rear fender is pushed in and more scrathes and my bumper is damaged...but the cop that showed up just kept telling my gf thats its her fault cause its private property...is that true…
Hi, thanks for reading. I've read a bunch of articles online and searched the forum to try and find my answers but I'm still unsure so I'm creating a new thread.
I was following a car that was going SUPER fast down the DVP but I got pulled over. I was speeding, too; however I don't want to use the "you got the wrong guy" defence because I'll probably lose.
I left my home at 4 am to pick up my daughter from downtown Toronto. When I passed the major intersection south of my house there were two police cars in the middle of the intersection and one officer waved me through the intersection.
When I returned with my daughter at 5:30 am the police cars were still in the intersection. I slowed down as I approached the intersection but the police were no…
I will be representing my wife at her speeding trial next week. Mostly everything is pretty much run of the mill but since she wasn't speeding we will be having her take the stand. Since this opens up the opportunity for the prosecutor to cross examine, I am just wondering if anyone here knows what kind of questions we should expect from the prosecutor in order to best prepare.
When the court sends out the notice of trial, do they use the address the officer wrote on the ticket, or the actual address in the MTO database? In the case of the former, what are the implications? The reason I ask is that my wife got a ticket last week and the officer wrote the wrong city on it.
This topic discusses the same thing but with CN police; is it any different for regular offences?
Driving onto ramp entering a major highway, posted limit is 100km/h, suggested ramp limit is 40km/h - I end up colliding with the concrete barrier on the passenger side of the vehicle.
Police arrive, suspect alcohol and breathalyze me with a result of 0.00 - I am asked for a statement and cautioned, however (stupidly) I proceed to provide the details anyways.
My friends and I were heading to Kelso Beach, I had signalled and i pulled off to the shoulder as my car seemed to be making noise, but after riding over the shoulder the noise stopped, i signalled back again and merged back into traffic after making sure it was safe, the officer which was ahead of me on the shoulder a few meters away pulled me over.…
I've decided to fight a traffic ticket for stop sign violation. The offense was 12 months ago, and I've got a court date for next Tuesday. I've requested disclosure and, although a bit last minute, received it two weeks before my court date.
Upon reviewing the case materials, there isn't much of a defense I can find -based on the cop having an obstructed view, or any mistakes in the…
I will be going to trial for my red light camera offence.
I'll be arguing two issues, centered on the fact that there are two essential elements of 144(18) - a) a vehicle approaching the intersection shall stop; and b) the vehicle shall not proceed until green. Both essential elements must be contravened beyond a reasonable doubt to be an offence.
1) My ticket says I (being the owner) am "charged…
I'm a newbie, so be kind if I'm messing up. Question: is it illegal to signal oncoming traffic that they are approaching a speed trap by flashing one's lights?
I ask because I was stopped for doing that yesterday evening, but did not end up with a ticket. The officer spend 5-10 minutes n his car, then sent me on my way. I'm wondering if he changed his mind or found out it was legal.
ok well here is my story .. I had an old megaphone from alarm system and decided since my horns on my car were rusted and were not making a loud enough sound.. i connected the alarm megaphone to the horn wires and it sounded very cool. depending on how log i hold my horn down for . due to the size of the power horn.. and mhy car being a Honda.. meaning no room under the hood i had installed it…