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Speeding 133kph on an 80 highway (53kph over)
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 5:59 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2015 5:40 pm
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Hello everybody!

This situation has been discussed before on this forum, however, I was unable to get a straight conclusion even after reading and researching similar cases. My boyfriend was pulled over on the Hanlon Highway in Guelph by the OPP. He was driving 133kph in the 80 zone, right before entering on the 401. His license got suspended for 7 days and his car was impounded for a week also. He got a court summons for two tickets: 1 was for speeding 50+ and the other ticket was for stunt driving. The cop told him that they rarely go after the stunt driving one, and he shouldn't be too worried about that, but not to take his word for it. He has a G2 and this is the first time he is pulled over for speeding. He wasn't trying to speed, the highway was empty and I guess he was sort of on auto-pilot, not realizing the speed he was going at.

I know people will suggest hiring a lawyer/paralegal. We agree with that, however we were wondering if anybody recommends any particular firm to fight these kind of tickets, or at least reduce to 49 kph, just so this is not considered a stunt. We are also wondering if he should just plea guilty on the summons day with the prosecutor, or should he deny that he was speeding that fast/speeding at all? He already admitted to the cop that he was speeding, although he did not realize he was going 133 kph. Is there anything he could do to reduce the harsh consequences of this occurrence? Has anyone gone through a similar situation to this in Guelph to be able to share some information on the process and what should we be expecting?

Any other advice from this would be really appreciated.

Thank you so much!

Curious15 :?


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Re: Speeding 133kph on an 80 highway (53kph over)
PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 9:41 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:49 pm
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Location: Ontario
Before going the paralegal route, why not attend Court on the first attendance date, receive your disclosure and see what type of deal the Crown is willing to offer. Plead not guilty to all charges for the time being as you can later change your plea if a deal is reached.

Once you have your disclosure you can review the evidence, consult with a paralegal and see if they think they can get you a better deal (or even win the case). If at the end of the day the Crown is offering you the same deal as the paralegal, no point spending money on their services.

No experience in Guelph, but wouldn't be surprised if they offer to drop the stunt driving in exchange for a plea to the speeding. 53 over is unfortunately still a major offence and will likely have significant insurance implications, but unless there's a weakness in the officer's case it's probably the best you can hope for.


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Re: Speeding 133kph on an 80 highway (53kph over)
PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 10:45 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 8:08 pm
Posts: 550
Also keep in mind that +49, +53 or Stunt Driving all carry four or more demerit points; you will receive an automatic 30-day driver's license suspension on your novice class G2 license; it's part of the novice driver's escalation sanctions.

It's in your best interest to book your G road test at the earliest availability and become fully licensed in order to avoid a DL suspension, if you're convicted.

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/dandv/ ... 10.2.shtml

http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/regs/e ... _e.htm#BK0
Quote:
9. (1) The Registrar shall, after giving notice, suspend or cancel the driver’s licence of a novice driver as provided in subsection (2) in the following circumstance:

(2) Subject to subsections (4) and 10 (5), the Registrar shall,
(a) upon a novice driver’s first conviction for any of the offences, suspend the driver’s licence of the person for 30 days;

(3) Subsection (1) applies with respect to any of the following offences:

3. An offence under the Act set out in Column 1 of the Table to the Demerit Point Regulation for which the number of demerit points set out opposite thereto in Column 2 is four or more, regardless of whether or not demerit points have been recorded.
Demerit Point Table: http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/regs/e ... 0339_e.htm


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Re: Speeding 133kph on an 80 highway (53kph over)
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 1:19 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2015 5:40 pm
Posts: 5
Stanton wrote:
Before going the paralegal route, why not attend Court on the first attendance date, receive your disclosure and see what type of deal the Crown is willing to offer. Plead not guilty to all charges for the time being as you can later change your plea if a deal is reached.

Once you have your disclosure you can review the evidence, consult with a paralegal and see if they think they can get you a better deal (or even win the case). If at the end of the day the Crown is offering you the same deal as the paralegal, no point spending money on their services.

No experience in Guelph, but wouldn't be surprised if they offer to drop the stunt driving in exchange for a plea to the speeding. 53 over is unfortunately still a major offence and will likely have significant insurance implications, but unless there's a weakness in the officer's case it's probably the best you can hope for.


Thank you for your reply, however since we don't want to make a mistake, or out of fear or not knowing what to say or saying something "wrong", we will probably hire a firm to fight it for us; even if it will be reduced to 49. If by any chance they will be able to reduce it to lower than 49, even 40-45, that would be better, but we don't know how that will happen. If it wouldn't be something as serious as this, we would probably just try to fight this ourselves, but we are a bit doubtful and worried about this whole process.

I guess it does not matter that the highway had just turned from 90 into an 80 zone, right? :S


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Re: Speeding 133kph on an 80 highway (53kph over)
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 1:29 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2015 5:40 pm
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iFly55 wrote:
Also keep in mind that +49, +53 or Stunt Driving all carry four or more demerit points; you will receive an automatic 30-day driver's license suspension on your novice class G2 license; it's part of the novice driver's escalation sanctions.

It's in your best interest to book your G road test at the earliest availability and become fully licensed in order to avoid a DL suspension, if you're convicted.

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/dandv/ ... 10.2.shtml

http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/regs/e ... _e.htm#BK0
Quote:
9. (1) The Registrar shall, after giving notice, suspend or cancel the driver’s licence of a novice driver as provided in subsection (2) in the following circumstance:

(2) Subject to subsections (4) and 10 (5), the Registrar shall,
(a) upon a novice driver’s first conviction for any of the offences, suspend the driver’s licence of the person for 30 days;

(3) Subsection (1) applies with respect to any of the following offences:

3. An offence under the Act set out in Column 1 of the Table to the Demerit Point Regulation for which the number of demerit points set out opposite thereto in Column 2 is four or more, regardless of whether or not demerit points have been recorded.
Demerit Point Table: http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/regs/e ... 0339_e.htm


Thank you for the reply!

When we contacted Traffic Defenders, they told us that this case may lead to a 30 day license suspension, and weren't very confident that they were able to avoid that. We then asked them if it is beneficial to get the G license right away, in order to avoid that, and they replied that it does not really matter, since at the time of the incident, my boyfriend had a G2 license. Is that true or could having a full license help him in this case?

Also, I searched up demerit points, and for this kind of offence, he would receive 6 demerit points. So then I searched up the consequences for a novice driver with 6 demerit points and it says the following:

Penalties for demerit points: new drivers
You are considered a novice – or new – driver if you have a G1, G2, M1, M2, M1-L or M2-L licence. As a new driver, you face different consequences for adding demerit points.


As a new driver, if you have:

2 to 5 points:
You will be sent a warning letter.

6 to 8 points:
Your licence could be suspended. You may have to attend an interview to discuss your driving record. At this meeting, you will need to provide reasons why your licence should not be suspended.

You will get a letter to notify you of the time, date and location of the meeting. If you do not attend, your licence could be suspended.

https://www.ontario.ca/driving-and-road ... rit-points

So, from my understanding, his license COULD and not WILL be suspended, unless he doesn't attend the meeting. I am not sure, hopefully this will get solved because if there was a lesson for him to learn, he sure did so!

Thank you. :?


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Re: Speeding 133kph on an 80 highway (53kph over)
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 3:06 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 8:08 pm
Posts: 550
That is incorrect, if he gets an HTA conviction that carries +4 demerit points his license will get suspended. In my earlier post, I gave you two links: first was from the MTO, the second was the legislation that supports it.

The situation you're discussing is if he has multiple HTA convictions that carry less than 4 demerit points.

Example:

3 HTA Convictions that carry 3 points = 9 (suspended)
5 HTA Convictions that carry 2 points = 10 (suspended)
1 HTA Conviction that carries 4 demerit points = 4 points (suspended)


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Re: Speeding 133kph on an 80 highway (53kph over)
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 3:19 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2015 5:40 pm
Posts: 5
iFly55 wrote:
That is incorrect, if he gets an HTA conviction that carries +4 demerit points his license will get suspended. In my earlier post, I gave you two links: first was from the MTO, the second was the legislation that supports it.

The situation you're discussing is if he has multiple HTA convictions that carry less than 4 demerit points.

Example:

3 HTA Convictions that carry 3 points = 9 (suspended)
5 HTA Convictions that carry 2 points = 10 (suspended)
1 HTA Conviction that carries 4 demerit points = 4 points (suspended)



Alright, I understand. Will it make a difference if he gets his G license before the summons date on April 1?


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Re: Speeding 133kph on an 80 highway (53kph over)
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 5:22 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 8:08 pm
Posts: 550
iFly55 wrote:
It's in your best interest to book your G road test at the earliest availability and become fully licensed in order to avoid a [future] DL suspension, if you're convicted [again].
Tired eyes, i meant to write this. It also looks better when you're trying to cut a deal.

The suspension is based on the offence date and the class of license at the time. If the stop was on a G2, but you currently have a G... then the G gets suspended for 30-days.


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Re: Speeding 133kph on an 80 highway (53kph over)
PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 5:32 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2015 5:40 pm
Posts: 5
iFly55 wrote:
iFly55 wrote:
It's in your best interest to book your G road test at the earliest availability and become fully licensed in order to avoid a [future] DL suspension, if you're convicted [again].
Tired eyes, i meant to write this. It also looks better when you're trying to cut a deal.

The suspension is based on the offence date and the class of license at the time. If the stop was on a G2, but you currently have a G... then the G gets suspended for 30-days.


Okay, thank you. We will take into consideration everything said here, and will see what happens. :?


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