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Re: Process of filing form 4F based on 11B, constitutional r
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 2:56 pm 
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Posts: 149
I'm starting to get confused now.

I have the Notice of Application for Stay ready (looks like this: http://scopezoom.com/11b/StayPDF.pdf).
I will make 6 copies according to this guide: http://scopezoom.com/11b/application-fo ... edings.pdf

What exactly is the 4F form?
What about the affidavit?

What's my next step?

Thanks!


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Re: Process of filing form 4F based on 11B, constitutional r
PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 2:36 pm 
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^^^ answering my own question:

Quote:
An Application for Stay of Proceedings is also known as a “notice of Constitutional question” or a “Constitutional challenge” and is known as a preliminary motion, which has to be dealt with by the Courts, prior to the actual trial of the facts or merits of the case.


Therefore all I need is the Notice of Application like this one: http://scopezoom.com/11b/StayPDF.pdf

I guess my real question is the following:

Where do I start serving?

The Toronto East Court Office or the Attorney of Canada?


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Re: Process of filing form 4F based on 11B, constitutional r
PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 3:33 pm 
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1. I also took the equivalent of the red part out, although I used an affidavit format instead of a Sworn Statement. I'd agree, innocence is not something to be argued in the affidavit/statement. All you are saying is that going to trial took an unreasonably long time.
2. Same courthouse. I used "Ontario Court of Justice" and then "Provincial Offences Court" and "Toronto East Region."
3. The Notice of Application format is basically the same as the 4F, but I used the "Notice" format, just like you did.
4. I printed off three copies, went to the fourth floor of the Markham Road courthouse, to the Prosecutor's office (turn right, then left, end of the hallway) and served them. They took one copy and stamped the remaining two... service with a smile. Then I went down to the information area (the room where everyone is packed in like a can of sardines), went to the information window (far end), and told the Clerk: "I am filing an 11B." He said "okay," took one copy and stamped the remainder. I took that one to Staples and faxed it to the Attorneys-General. I took the fax receipts, filled out a couple of quick affidavits indicating I had served the notices, went over to a Commissioner of Oaths and got them stamped. Done and done.

Prepare for a full-on battle in the courtroom, although it is more than likely that the Prosecutor will simply withdraw the charge.

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* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca


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Re: Process of filing form 4F based on 11B, constitutional r
PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:31 pm 
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Radar Identified wrote:
I used an affidavit format instead of a Sworn Statement. ...
... I printed off three copies, went to the fourth floor of the Markham Road courthouse, to the Prosecutor's office (turn right, then left, end of the hallway) and served them.
... I took the fax receipts, filled out a couple of quick affidavits indicating I had served the notices, went over to a Commissioner of Oaths and got them stamped. Done and done.


If you are using the "Sworn Statement" is your first trip to the Commissioner to get this document signed before taking it to the Prosecutor? Is that also true with the affidavit format or does that eliminate this step or do you have to visit the Commissioner twice regardless which you use?


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Re: Process of filing form 4F based on 11B, constitutional r
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 8:56 am 
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CAROL wrote:
Radar Identified wrote:
I used an affidavit format instead of a Sworn Statement. ...
... I printed off three copies, went to the fourth floor of the Markham Road courthouse, to the Prosecutor's office (turn right, then left, end of the hallway) and served them.
... I took the fax receipts, filled out a couple of quick affidavits indicating I had served the notices, went over to a Commissioner of Oaths and got them stamped. Done and done.


If you are using the "Sworn Statement" is your first trip to the Commissioner to get this document signed before taking it to the Prosecutor? Is that also true with the affidavit format or does that eliminate this step or do you have to visit the Commissioner twice regardless which you use?


That's my question too.

I'm heading now to the Markham Rd. Court straight to the prosecutor's office, as per Radar's advice.
I'll ask the prosecutor if I need to have the sworn statement signed in front of a commissioner of oaths.
See part in yellow below.

Image


EDIT: SEE BELOW. I HAD TO GO FIRST TO HAVE MY NOTICE SWORN BY COMMISSIONER OF OATHS BEFORE SERVING THE PROSECUTOR.


Last edited by diehard on Fri Nov 26, 2010 7:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Process of filing form 4F based on 11B, constitutional r
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 5:13 pm 
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I just came back from from the Court Office (1530 Markham Rd).

Mission accomplished!

I served them all. The clerks were very polite and helpful. But I spent like 3.5 hours there.

I have a few comments though. I followed the steps described by Radar slightly different.
I had 4 copies of the Notice of Application for Stay of Proceedings.
As soon as I arrived I did the following:

1. I went to the sardine room (ticket office), waited for more than an hour but had the 4 copies sworn by a commissioner of oaths (the clerk herself);
2. I went to the Prosecutors and had them served.
3. They stamped the 4 copies and kept one.
4. I faxed one copy to the Attorney-General of Ontario and one copy to the Attorney-General of Canada.
5. Kept the fax receipts.
6. Returned to the sardine room and waited for another 1.5 hour.
7. Had the Court served.
8. I had two 16B Affidavits of Service (one for each fax I sent to the attorneys-general).
9. I had them sworn and clerk kept one copy each with the fax receipts.

That's it.

I intend to create a new topic describing my steps in detail. I confess that I got really confused between the 4F and Notice of Applications.
There are too many forms, formats and procedures.

The second clerk said that the Prosecutors should have kept copies of the affidavits of service too, anyway, he said I was good to go because "I had covered all the angles".
I think there's also a confusion between the Sworn Statement inside the Notice of Application and the Affidavit like this Example of Affidavit

Now I have to wait for the trial date and prepare for the main battle.



Radar Identified and Simon, thanks guys!!!!!!!!!!


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Re: Process of filing form 4F based on 11B, constitutional r
PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 6:47 pm 
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diehard wrote:
I I intend to create a new topic describing my steps in detail.

Maybe you could PM with RI (he is a mod) a little bit and the new thread (with links to forms) can be added as a sticky, therefore if anyone requests this in the future we just direct them to that link. thanks
HB

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Re: Process of filing form 4F based on 11B, constitutional r
PostPosted: Sat Nov 27, 2010 8:12 pm 
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CAROL wrote:
If you are using the "Sworn Statement" is your first trip to the Commissioner to get this document signed before taking it to the Prosecutor?


Yes. You can get that done at the courthouse for free, as diehard did. Or, if you don't have the time (or in my case, the patience), you can pay a Notary Public or Commissioner and get it done there - but it costs some cash.

CAROL wrote:
Is that also true with the affidavit format or does that eliminate this step or do you have to visit the Commissioner twice regardless which you use?


Whether you use a Sworn Statement or an Affidavit (with the same contents as the Sworn Statement), either one has to be sworn/stamped/signed by a Commissioner of Oaths or a Notary Public.

diehard, if you'd like, as hwybear suggests, please PM me and we can set up a sticky for you so the details can be recorded. Thank you for sharing the information on your experience, as well. I'm sure others will find it helpful.

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* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca


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Re: Process of filing form 4F based on 11B, constitutional r
PostPosted: Mon Nov 29, 2010 11:12 am 
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Radar Identified wrote:
I'm sure others will find it helpful.


I would like to say that this stuff is extremely helpful and I'm sure it's going to encourage others to go through the process by taking the mystery out of it. I've got to thank you guys for taking the time to post this information. I hope you are successful in court and am interested in hearing what happens. Good Luck!


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Re: Process of filing form 4F based on 11B, constitutional r
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2010 4:10 pm 
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So... is this what the two Affidavits of Service should look like (ie. with my info added in the red areas)?

Also, are the fax numbers correct and match what you used?



Image


and...


Image


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Re: Process of filing form 4F based on 11B, constitutional r
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 8:41 am 
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Yes, mine was like the file attached to this post.


Attachments:
File comment: 16B Affidavit of Service example
Capture.PNG
Capture.PNG [ 30.77 KiB | Viewed 1676 times ]
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Re: Process of filing form 4F based on 11B, constitutional r
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 9:17 am 
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Is the number 326 or 362? I got the 326 number from their website.

Is the Attorney General of Canada the same fax number you used?


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Re: Process of filing form 4F based on 11B, constitutional r
PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 11:53 am 
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Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 11:28 am
Posts: 149
Yes, it's 326, my form is wrong.

Got both phones from here:

http://www.ei.gc.ca/eng/umpire/attorney_general.shtml

Attorney General of Canada
284 Wellington St.
Ottawa, ON K1A 0H8
613-992-4621
Fax: 613-990-7255

Attorney General of Ontario
720 Bay St., 11th Floor
Toronto, ON M5G 2K1
416-326-2220 or 1-800-518-7901
Fax: 416-326-4007


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Re: Process of filing form 4F based on 11B, constitutional r
PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 9:24 pm 
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Do I have to include the complete "ASKOV et al v. R. DECISION" and the "R. v. MORIN DECISION" in my NOTICE OF APPLICATION FOR STAY OF PROCEEDINGS package or just the first few pages of each?

They are both very long and an example of a package I have, seems to just use the first couple of pages containing everything up to the "Statutes and Regulations Cited" section.


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Re: Process of filing form 4F based on 11B, constitutional r
PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 11:11 am 
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Posts: 149
Ashkov: I printed up to page 6 of the pdf inside attached zip file.
Morin: I printed up to page 8 of the pdf inside attached zip file.


Attachments:
ashkov-and-morin.zip [203.39 KiB]
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