My next move

oliver2000
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My next move

Unread post by oliver2000 on

First off, thanks in advance for any help. I have mostly followed the process on ticketcombat

Here is my situation

In april 2010 i got a ticket for a illegal left turn
I submitted the request for trail right away
A few months later I got my trial notice early feb was the date
I sent my disclosure request 3 times during oct and nov
On Jan 24th I was sent a letter saying my disclosure was ready fora feb7 trial date
I filed a 11b form 4f seeking a stay based on the untimely disclosure

On trail date

Had my 30 seconds with the prosecutor, looking at the list they had beside my name was a 11b
They asked if I wanted new date or a trial and stated they sent a letter on Nov 24, 2010
I said I did not get one and got the letter in Jan, they said we will set a new date

My turn, I go up the prosecutor asked the justice for a stay and said disclosure was ready for some time but since I did not put my phone number on it they had to send a letter, immediatly they requested a new date without giving me time to address the justice, was not quite sure what to do so I agreed to a new date in late july. The prosecutor handed me the disclosure in front of the justice and my turn was over. The disclosure is basically a copy of the ticket and a drawing of the trap they setup. Reading the disclosure it was not ready until Jan 11 as a stamp on it says so.

I feel like I got railroaded by the prosecutor and they were untruthful to the justice ( although it was worded without dates )....Any suggestions on my next step, I am going to try and argue the too much time has passed method but it is shy of the 18 months, I do have all the documents to prove that the intial delay was the result of untimely disclosure.


Stanton
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Unread post by Stanton on

I think you'd have a hard time arguing too much time has gone by since you consented to the latest delay. If the Crown or Courts had been unable to proceed on your date in February, that would be a different story. Whether you feel you got pushed into it or not, you still agreed for a trial in July. As with everything, it will be somewhat dependent on the jurisdiction and the presiding J.P.

Also, I'm a little confused about your disclosure. Did the notice you receive in January say you could pick it up right away or not until your trial? If you waited until the trial date I think the Courts will be less sympathetic as two weeks would be sufficient opportunity to review the evidence and seek counsel if required.


oliver2000
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Unread post by oliver2000 on

Stanton wrote:I think you'd have a hard time arguing too much time has gone by since you consented to the latest delay. If the Crown or Courts had been unable to proceed on your date in February, that would be a different story. Whether you feel you got pushed into it or not, you still agreed for a trial in July. As with everything, it will be somewhat dependent on the jurisdiction and the presiding J.P.

Also, I'm a little confused about your disclosure. Did the notice you receive in January say you could pick it up right away or not until your trial? If you waited until the trial date I think the Courts will be less sympathetic as two weeks would be sufficient opportunity to review the evidence and seek counsel if required.
Thank you.....I received notice in the mail that I could pick it up Jan 28 for a feb 7 trial date, so it was one business week.

I figured delay might not work, the disclosure I got was minimal, I was thinking about asking for the by-law that changed the lane from what was a legal left turn in March to a illegal one in April( young and harbour). I thought by law they had to do a public education period.


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Unread post by Radar Identified on

oliver2000 wrote:I thought by law they had to do a public education period.
They don't. Usually they will post one of those big circular "NEW" signs that warn drivers of a change. As for ticketing, police can use any law that is in effect, no matter how early it is. For example, the first motorist caught under the stunt driving law was pulled over just 1 minute after it came into effect.

I'm not really sure you can make an 11B argument. You could try, but because you received notice that your disclosure was ready well in advance of the trial, I think that the JP will rule in favour of the Prosecutor and won't grant a stay. That leaves the initial period of April 2010 to February 2011, which is not enough time for an 11B in my opinion.
* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca


oliver2000
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Unread post by oliver2000 on

Thank you....my new trial date is in July, a year and 3 months. I now have the disclosure so I think I simply have to try my best at trail to beat this.

I am thinking I will send a request for further disclosure, bylaw change etc to try and argue inadequate disclosure, if I don't get it, might try for another stay then I would be over the magic 18 months. but I think this is a long shot


oliver2000
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Unread post by oliver2000 on

oliver2000 wrote:Thank you....my new trial date is in July, a year and 3 months. I now have the disclosure so I think I simply have to try my best at trail to beat this.

I am thinking I will send a request for further disclosure, bylaw change etc to try and argue inadequate disclosure, if I don't get it, might try for another stay then I would be over the magic 18 months. but I think this is a long shot
Just a quick update, they offered me a fail to proceed as directed ticket 60 bucks no points, feeling I was done I accepted it, however the JP was on a tear about deal making and made the prosecutor do trials first instead of deals, ate up most of the time. Then the JP came back after break and talked about the deals, then the cops mysteriously left the room and a bunch of pleas got dropped...mine as well !! My hunch is that some far more serious trials needed to be heard..

Anyway off scott free...always fight your tickets is what I learned, thank you to this site and the combat site !






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