Hello everyone, I got a ticket for going 20 km/h over 50 in Toronto around March of last year and received my court summons for a hearing in February 2012 approx. 3 weeks ago. Mailed out a request for disclosure a week after that. It's now been 2 and a 1/2 weeks since the request and I was wondering when would be an appropriate time to file another request? I didn't put any kind of diary date on the first request, so I'm wondering if that's letting the prosecutor stall.... Would appreciate any advice!
Hello everyone,
I got a ticket for going 20 km/h over 50 in Toronto around March of last year and received my court summons for a hearing in February 2012 approx. 3 weeks ago. Mailed out a request for disclosure a week after that. It's now been 2 and a 1/2 weeks since the request and I was wondering when would be an appropriate time to file another request? I didn't put any kind of diary date on the first request, so I'm wondering if that's letting the prosecutor stall....
I would give it another 2 weeks before mailing out another request. You may want to make sure that your request includes specific useful information pertaining to your case, and you may want to use registered mail. Btw, your hearing in February isn't a trial. If you haven't yet received a Notice of Trial in the mail, then your hearing in February is probably a First Attendance meeting.
I would give it another 2 weeks before mailing out another request.
You may want to make sure that your request includes specific useful information pertaining to your case, and you may want to use registered mail.
Btw, your hearing in February isn't a trial. If you haven't yet received a Notice of Trial in the mail, then your hearing in February is probably a First Attendance meeting.
So, update on this... I received a letter from the court prosecutor to pick up my disclosure package. Regarding this, would it be recommended that I open up the package there to make sure all the documents I asked for in my request were given to me? If I do find something missing and ask for a reason, I fear I wouldn't have this reason in writing. But if I sign for the package without looking through the contents, would it look like I accept what they have given me? Thanks in advance for any advice!
So, update on this...
I received a letter from the court prosecutor to pick up my disclosure package. Regarding this, would it be recommended that I open up the package there to make sure all the documents I asked for in my request were given to me? If I do find something missing and ask for a reason, I fear I wouldn't have this reason in writing. But if I sign for the package without looking through the contents, would it look like I accept what they have given me?
There's normally not a lot of strategy to this. You pick up the package, you check it out, if there's something missing, you submit a followup disclosure request in writing shortly after. You keep repeating this process until you get everything you want or until you get to court and then you put it on the record, along with all of your efforts.
There's normally not a lot of strategy to this. You pick up the package, you check it out, if there's something missing, you submit a followup disclosure request in writing shortly after. You keep repeating this process until you get everything you want or until you get to court and then you put it on the record, along with all of your efforts.
Hi Vinny, I will definitely look at filing an 11B, as I didn't realize that it was at least 11 months (thought it would have to be at least a year). Anyways, a few days ago, I picked up my disclosure package and noticed a few things which seemed unclear. As part of my request, I had asked for an explanation of short forms which the officer may have written in his notes, as well as the operating manual for the laser device. From what I received, I have not received any explanation of the short forms (I guess this will go on my second request) and also got a copy of the testing record for the laser device. On the bottom of this record, there appears to be a training record for the officer but it is really badly photocopied and smudged to the point of being unreadable (basically a big block of black splotches). I also noticed that this record doesn't seem to have any date written on it. Would that training record have a date? Or is this a potential fatal error? Thanks again for all the advice everyone, this has been really educational and helpful for me!
Hi Vinny, I will definitely look at filing an 11B, as I didn't realize that it was at least 11 months (thought it would have to be at least a year).
Anyways, a few days ago, I picked up my disclosure package and noticed a few things which seemed unclear. As part of my request, I had asked for an explanation of short forms which the officer may have written in his notes, as well as the operating manual for the laser device. From what I received, I have not received any explanation of the short forms (I guess this will go on my second request) and also got a copy of the testing record for the laser device. On the bottom of this record, there appears to be a training record for the officer but it is really badly photocopied and smudged to the point of being unreadable (basically a big block of black splotches). I also noticed that this record doesn't seem to have any date written on it. Would that training record have a date? Or is this a potential fatal error?
Thanks again for all the advice everyone, this has been really educational and helpful for me!
It used to be 1 year for an 11b, now it's closer to 9 months. See this topic here: http://www.ontariohighwaytrafficact.com/topic3881.html As for the training certificate, I'd suspect it should have a date on it, but there is no requirement to provide any documentation. Case law has said it's not something required in disclosure, and any concerns over training can be brought up at trial.
As for the training certificate, I'd suspect it should have a date on it, but there is no requirement to provide any documentation. Case law has said it's not something required in disclosure, and any concerns over training can be brought up at trial.
Update on the situation: Well, I had sent in another request for disclosure in late November but didn't receive any notice from the prosecutor's office regarding this, so I sent another follow up to them to request for the items that were missing, as described in my last post above. From the evidence I have so far, I'm not sure if I am able to cast any reasonable doubt over the situation but I'm also turning to filing an 11B. My question though, is reading the TicketCombat website, I never saw the advice to send a letter to the prosecutor to request a trial. In not sending that, would that make it more difficult for me to be granted a stay? Also, I never requested any information on the laser gun instruction manual in any of my three disclosure requests, should I be asking for those or does it matter/too late? Thanks!
Update on the situation:
Well, I had sent in another request for disclosure in late November but didn't receive any notice from the prosecutor's office regarding this, so I sent another follow up to them to request for the items that were missing, as described in my last post above. From the evidence I have so far, I'm not sure if I am able to cast any reasonable doubt over the situation but I'm also turning to filing an 11B. My question though, is reading the TicketCombat website, I never saw the advice to send a letter to the prosecutor to request a trial. In not sending that, would that make it more difficult for me to be granted a stay? Also, I never requested any information on the laser gun instruction manual in any of my three disclosure requests, should I be asking for those or does it matter/too late?
Ok, another update: I have received a response to my third disclosure request, in which I stated that on the evidence they give, I would like an explanation of the short forms in the officer's notes and if this wasn't provided, a reason for why not. In short, they failed to provide that and I still have slightly illegible notes here...would this be a case of improper disclosure if they did not explain why they didn't fill that part of my request and could I argue that with an 11B? Here are the notes, I was wondering if anyone could help decipher what it means....
Ok, another update:
I have received a response to my third disclosure request, in which I stated that on the evidence they give, I would like an explanation of the short forms in the officer's notes and if this wasn't provided, a reason for why not. In short, they failed to provide that and I still have slightly illegible notes here...would this be a case of improper disclosure if they did not explain why they didn't fill that part of my request and could I argue that with an 11B? Here are the notes, I was wondering if anyone could help decipher what it means....
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post. Register to view.
From what I see, the notes say -- Silver, 4 door, (next word is cut off on your attachment, it would be the make...looks like Toyota) Solo occupant (no passenger) (not sure what O/A is)...Lead vehicle, curb lane 71.7 (likely the speed you were clocked at) 106.44 (possibly the fine or could be your speed) 3180 0049B could be part of the offence notice number O/C & Cold is overcast and cold Not sure what R Dxx TW is, unless it means Really Dry 50 metres South Gailgrove This is pretty much the info the officer would need during the trial. Hope this helps.
From what I see, the notes say --
Silver, 4 door, (next word is cut off on your attachment, it would be the make...looks like Toyota)
Solo occupant (no passenger)
(not sure what O/A is)...Lead vehicle, curb lane
71.7 (likely the speed you were clocked at)
106.44 (possibly the fine or could be your speed)
3180 0049B could be part of the offence notice number
O/C & Cold is overcast and cold
Not sure what R Dxx TW is, unless it means Really Dry
50 metres South Gailgrove
This is pretty much the info the officer would need during the trial.
Hi Sona, thanks for that! My question now revolves around a specific request in my disclosure where I asked the officer to provide an explanation of the short forms used in his notes and if these were not available, I would like to receive an explanation regarding why they weren't available. This was not provided and I have filed three disclosure requests so far (two have been received by the prosecutor and responded to). As such, would this be grounds to argue for improper disclosure or as institutional delay for an 11B (it will have been 11 months and 14 days since the offence and as noted in Stanton's post above, City of Toronto v. Andrade case showed that 11 and 28 and 11 and 4 were suitable for 11B to be accepted)?
Sona wrote:
From what I see, the notes say --
Silver, 4 door, (next word is cut off on your attachment, it would be the make...looks like Toyota)
Solo occupant (no passenger)
(not sure what O/A is)...Lead vehicle, curb lane
71.7 (likely the speed you were clocked at)
106.44 (possibly the fine or could be your speed)
3180 0049B could be part of the offence notice number
O/C & Cold is overcast and cold
Not sure what R Dxx TW is, unless it means Really Dry
50 metres South Gailgrove
This is pretty much the info the officer would need during the trial.
Hope this helps.
Hi Sona, thanks for that! My question now revolves around a specific request in my disclosure where I asked the officer to provide an explanation of the short forms used in his notes and if these were not available, I would like to receive an explanation regarding why they weren't available. This was not provided and I have filed three disclosure requests so far (two have been received by the prosecutor and responded to). As such, would this be grounds to argue for improper disclosure or as institutional delay for an 11B (it will have been 11 months and 14 days since the offence and as noted in Stanton's post above, City of Toronto v. Andrade case showed that 11 and 28 and 11 and 4 were suitable for 11B to be accepted)?
My personal view is that it doesnt hurt to file an 11B and try to get a stay before entering a plea for your ticket. You lose nothing. That said, a prosecutor told me last week that she would fight an 11B unless it was about 14 months delay. I reminded her of R v. Morin (8-10 month delay). She said that is being appealed right now. However, to me, the matter isnt closed. I would argue the 11B in court with the help of case law. I am new to this site, hopefully, others will add to this.
My personal view is that it doesnt hurt to file an 11B and try to get a stay before entering a plea for your ticket. You lose nothing. That said, a prosecutor told me last week that she would fight an 11B unless it was about 14 months delay. I reminded her of R v. Morin (8-10 month delay). She said that is being appealed right now. However, to me, the matter isnt closed. I would argue the 11B in court with the help of case law. I am new to this site, hopefully, others will add to this.
Hi everyone, Just an update on the situation: I did end up filing an 11B two weeks ago and went through all the hurdles of getting things signed and stamped. When I pressed both the court clerks and the prosecutor's office to stamp my stay applications and affidavits of service with a "Proof of Service" stamp, they said they didn't have those and simply stamped them with the general "Received" stamp. So, this morning was my court date and upon meeting with the prosecutor before the proceedings began, they noted that I had filed an 11B. While I was waiting for my turn, I saw the prosecutor leaf through my package, smile and show it the officer. At that point, I was thinking, "oh no, they found something which they're gonna argue against" and my heart rate ended up increasing a bit. When I got up for my turn though, I saw that the officer had left the room and before I could even say anything to the Justice, the prosecutor mentioned that my 11B had been filed for an almost 12 month delay and they dropped all charges. I was ready to argue for my case based on the Andrade precedent and I only ended up saying "Thank you" to the court. :D In retrospect, I'm thinking the prosecutor was simply asking the officer if he was willing to fight it or not... Anyways, just wanted to give a big thanks to everyone who helped me out on this thread, you have my eternal appreciations!
Sona wrote:
My personal view is that it doesnt hurt to file an 11B and try to get a stay before entering a plea for your ticket. You lose nothing. That said, a prosecutor told me last week that she would fight an 11B unless it was about 14 months delay. I reminded her of R v. Morin (8-10 month delay). She said that is being appealed right now. However, to me, the matter isnt closed. I would argue the 11B in court with the help of case law. I am new to this site, hopefully, others will add to this.
Hi everyone,
Just an update on the situation:
I did end up filing an 11B two weeks ago and went through all the hurdles of getting things signed and stamped. When I pressed both the court clerks and the prosecutor's office to stamp my stay applications and affidavits of service with a "Proof of Service" stamp, they said they didn't have those and simply stamped them with the general "Received" stamp.
So, this morning was my court date and upon meeting with the prosecutor before the proceedings began, they noted that I had filed an 11B. While I was waiting for my turn, I saw the prosecutor leaf through my package, smile and show it the officer. At that point, I was thinking, "oh no, they found something which they're gonna argue against" and my heart rate ended up increasing a bit. When I got up for my turn though, I saw that the officer had left the room and before I could even say anything to the Justice, the prosecutor mentioned that my 11B had been filed for an almost 12 month delay and they dropped all charges. I was ready to argue for my case based on the Andrade precedent and I only ended up saying "Thank you" to the court. In retrospect, I'm thinking the prosecutor was simply asking the officer if he was willing to fight it or not...
Anyways, just wanted to give a big thanks to everyone who helped me out on this thread, you have my eternal appreciations!
Good for you!! It is not up to officers to go to trial or not......most likely showed the package to the officer, indicating the reason for the withdrawal of charges, so if it was an error on the officers part (ie: slow to provide disclosure to prosecutor) can learn from it, or maybe if was prosecutor fault (slow on sending out disclosure) or court fault (slow for scheduling the trial date), just a courtesy to the officer.
Good for you!!
fmarshall wrote:
. While I was waiting for my turn, I saw the prosecutor leaf through my package, smile and show it the officer...... In retrospect, I'm thinking the prosecutor was simply asking the officer if he was willing to fight it or not...
It is not up to officers to go to trial or not......most likely showed the package to the officer, indicating the reason for the withdrawal of charges, so if it was an error on the officers part (ie: slow to provide disclosure to prosecutor) can learn from it, or maybe if was prosecutor fault (slow on sending out disclosure) or court fault (slow for scheduling the trial date), just a courtesy to the officer.
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca
Morin was a cased that was decided back in 1992 by the Supreme Court. It cannot be appealed because (a) it's 20 years old, and (b) there's nowhere to appeal from the Supreme Court.
Sona wrote:
I reminded her of R v. Morin (8-10 month delay). She said that is being appealed right now.
Morin was a cased that was decided back in 1992 by the Supreme Court. It cannot be appealed because (a) it's 20 years old, and (b) there's nowhere to appeal from the Supreme Court.
Here's a link to the above-mentioned R. v. Andrade case - http://www.canlii.org/en/on/oncj/doc/20 ... cj470.html It's got extremely clear guidelines regarding 11(b) considerations, especially in the Toronto area, and can help you properly argue you application in court.
It's got extremely clear guidelines regarding 11(b) considerations, especially in the Toronto area, and can help you properly argue you application in court.
LOL, appealed. To where? As Simon says... it's the Supreme Court of Canada that decided it. Nice try on her part with the bluff, though.
Sona wrote:
I reminded her of R v. Morin (8-10 month delay). She said that is being appealed right now.
LOL, appealed. To where? As Simon says... it's the Supreme Court of Canada that decided it. Nice try on her part with the bluff, though.
* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca
I have a problem and not sure what the hell to do about it. Few days ago I was stopped on a street going westbound against blinding afternoon sun following the flow of traffic. I drive a taxi for living in Toronto and have ACZ driver's license. I have a perfect record both for professional as well regular demerit points. I haven't been pulled over as a matter of fact in some 15 years for…
I have recently gone to court for a speeding ticket issued by an OPP officer. As it stood, the officer forgot to sign the ticket. So at my trial, before I made a plea, I pointed this out to the justice of the peace and asked that the ticket be quashed. I was asked to produce my copy of the ticket, which I gave and the JOP then agreed with me and dismissed the case. Before he did so, the…
I got pulled over (along with about 10 other cars) for going through a road closed sign. I had just pulled out of a parking lot pretty much right beside the road closed sign, and with about 4 cars behind me there wasn't much I could do but go through, so I think I have a good chance of fighting it. However, on my ticket under the Signature of issuing Provincial Offences Officer, it's left…
So here's my situation, any advice would be appreciated.
On June 26, 2013 I received a ticket for 25 over in a 60 zone
In early October I received my notice of trial (Feb 25, 2014)
In early January I sent in my request for disclosure
In late January I received a letter to pick up my disclosure, however when I picked up my disclosure it wasn't typed (I had requested it to be) and I needed…
Is there a legal requirement to report an accident to the insurer?
Scenario
- 2 vehicle accident
- each vehicle has less than $1000 damage
- each vehicle has damage roughly equal to insurance deductible
- a police Accident Report was completed
In this scenario the drivers decided to repair their own damages. But are they legally bound to report the accident and damages to the insurer? ...and out of…
I will be representing my wife at her speeding trial next week. Mostly everything is pretty much run of the mill but since she wasn't speeding we will be having her take the stand. Since this opens up the opportunity for the prosecutor to cross examine, I am just wondering if anyone here knows what kind of questions we should expect from the prosecutor in order to best prepare.
i got pulled over by a cop this morning in my kids's school zone for failure to stop at a stop sign. i am thinking of fighting this ticket, but i noticed that on the ticket itself it only says "disobey stop sign - fail to stop" and there is no mention of the demerit points. a co-worker mentioned to me that a ticket should state how many demerit points i am being docked. i know the Highway Traffic…
Alright, so this happened back awhile ago on June and I haven't appeared in Court. However, I would like some inputs and advice before I get into this battle.
Back in June I got a Speeding Ticket claiming I was going 100km/h on Blackcreek going south towards Lawrence. The Speed Limit there is 70km/h.
At this point of time, it was roughly traffic hour around 4-5PM. Coming off of the Highway, and…
Ive already done searches, read the act as best i can but still haven't read a complete answer. Where in the HTA does it state that the front license plate must be attached to the front bumper? I have it on the passenger sun visor (if ppl remember the old temp permits that taped to the pass side of windshield) i figured that this spot would be the same. However now they have got rid of…
My son was returning from school and was just entering the driveway when another vehicle hit the rear end. Police writes a ticket "fail to yield from private drive" 139(i). He is going to fight this ticket and made an application for disclosure. The trial is next week and he still hasn't received the disclosure.
He checked with the court last month and they said that they will call when disclosure…
i was travelling on the 401 (posted speed 100km/h) in the far left lane, when i caught up to a vehicle going ~110km/h. I patiently waited for the vehicle to move over a lane, but they did not. The vehicle behind me moved to the center lane to pass, but because he was a safe distance behind me, i moved into the middle lane ahead of him to pass the slower moving car. When I accelerated, i…
So I was returning from my honeymoon in Montreal, and was cruising down the 401 just inside the Ontario/Quebec border. I was passing one of the Onroute stations and saw an OPP cruiser. I checked my speed and I was doing 120. A few kilometers up the road the cruiser pulled me over and told me I was clocked doing 132 by the aircraft. I was a little surprised to see the ticket was for the full…
I made a right turn during prohibited hours (7am-6pm) in Toronto. I was ticketed by a COP who was specially watching for that trap.
After I've received the ticket HTA144(9), I discovered one of the seven digits of my license plate was incorrectly written on my ticket. I was thinking about to make a First Attendance at the court office to see the prosecutor for a reduced charge...any advice or…
Have been busy and haven't had much time to follow up on this...
Went to court having not received disclosure (and was not organized enough to apply for a stay), so the trial was adjourned. They photocopied the officer's ticket and notes and provided a log sheet from the plane. I've sent another request for the rest of the disclosure items.
So here's my question -- can an officer amend the ticket…
I am not sure if my case is really a case of " mis-use parking permit" and need some advises on whether i should fight the ticket. Here is what happened:
During the labor day long weekend, I took my parents to diner at a local shopping mall. (my father's hip was broken in 2016 and he's been on wheelchair since, the permit is in his name and I been using the permit to help him for doctor's…
I have a court date coming up where I need to subpoena one of the officers that was present when I got my ticket. The issuing officer didn't include the fact that the second one was present at the time in his report (disclosure) but did give me the second officers name and badge number after the judge told him to do it.
What I'm looking for help with is the process of me getting to…
I got pulled over on a 4 lane section fo Highway 7... Thank god I didn't get a stay at home ticket as well or my car impounded.
Officer clocked me at 156 km/h he decided not to impound my car and give me a 149 km/h since it was my first offence and he said I was polite and respectful. I would give this officer a 5/5 review if I could, very polite and respectful.
Long story short, I was driving from Toronto to Ottawa and around Napanee with my friend in two separated cars, the officer was parked on uturn. He followed us turn his light on and got between us and pulled us over, he told me that i was running at 152 km/h without showing me his LISAR. they suspended my and my friends license and impounded the two cars for 7 days. This was a Friday in January…
I'm unsure on what to do here. I was under the impression that I could request a stay on the day of trial because disclosure was not given to me in an adequate time. I requested disclosure 2x by fax, 5 months ago.
I read on ticketcombat that I had to file a motion 15 days prior to the trial to request a stay of proceedings.
Does anyone else get blinded by fog lights on rural roads? I don't seem to have a problem with them on lighted streets, but the badly aimed fog lights or ones with a poor cutoff really get to me when driving the Escort. I just came back from a 20-minute drive, and every single pickup truck had fog lights on, and forced me to focus on the bottom right of the road. My windshield is clean and…
In retrospect, I'm thinking the prosecutor was simply asking the officer if he was willing to fight it or not...
