Careless Driving Summons Under Part I as result of accident

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alexu
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Careless Driving Summons Under Part I as result of accident

Unread post by alexu on

Hello All,


I just have a question in regards to the summons Under Part 1 I received for an rear end accident:


I was driving on the 2 lane road, and the car in front of me suddenly stopped, I had seen the car, and so I started to brake, however I heard noise from the back and looked int o the rear view mirror and saw a huge "truck" so I decided to go right, took the feet out of brakes but couldnt manage it since there was a lot of cars and I couldnt get in....)-:


I slammed on the brakes hard again but it was too late, so I rear ended the car in front of me, the truck in the back escape the accident, the weather was good and I was going back from work, my car was totalled and the car in front lost bumper, they were 3 people in this car, 2 kids and and parent.....

my airbag deployed and I ended up in the hospital - very minor injuries , their car was ok and visually the family was ok as well....

in the hospital, I had another cop (not the one from the accident) showing up and giving me a summons Under Part I (they are saying in Richmond Hill ON) it is now a practice for Careless driving charges.....always a summons (but on a ticket it says "Under Part I of the provincial Traffic Act"), the road was 70 Km and I was driving 60 max.

I wasnt careless thats for sure, I saw its happening and was trying to avoid another accident but unfortunately, I was failed to do so..... (if not the car from behind I would of avoided it, but)-:

I do have 1 minor traffic ticket - no points on my record and havent had any accident (AT FAULT or NOT AT FAULT) in my life, G license, over 35 years old and driving for 8 years in Ontario.....


Question, what can I expect in my first appearance? any possibility I will be offered to plea guilty for lesser charge? considering there was no possibility to go left to avoid collision, what can it be (if so) ? and what are my chances that they will offer me something anyways?


Another question, does anyone know if this is really true about Summons the police is giving instead of just ticket with fine? I will take the paralegal after later....



Thank you all,
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alexu
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Unread post by alexu on

Sorry bothering you all, but in general when I walk in to the court, how would I start my conversation with the prosecutor?

Hello......should I explain about what happened or sometimes he/she will already have some deal and than how does the conversation go?


ANOTHER QUESTION: insurance, if I am lucky and will be able to reduce the charge to lesser (some minor - from your expert experience what can it be?) what will be my insurance percentage increase? considering at fault and 2 minor convictions (including this current one is 2) - I know if I am not able to do anything and will still be with careless this is going to be cancelled policy and the way to facility , but the question if I am lucky, then I have 2 minor convictions and 1 accident at fault....


Thank you experts in advance....
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jsherk
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Unread post by jsherk on

Any ticket you get can increase your insurance. The three categories are MINOR, MAJOR and SERIOUS. I believe Careless is serious and this means your insurance could double and/or even be cancelled. MAJOR and MINOR offences can still cause an increase but not as severe as a SERIOUS one. And with some charges on your record already, then even a MINOR charge could cause an increase.

The Summons date is not your trial date. Most likely the prosecutor will meet with you before everything starts. They may or may not offer you a plea deal.

Your options are:
(1) Just plead guilty (not recommended).
(2) If prosecutor does NOT offer you any kind of plea deal, then I would plead Not Guilty, request Disclosure and get a Trial date set.
(3) If prosecutor does offer you a plea deal, then I would nicely ask if you can review the dislcosure before you decide whether to accept the deal or not. They will then set a new summons date (still not your trial date) for you to come back to again where you will be able to either plead guilty to the plea deal or plead not guilty to the careless charge and set a trial date.
+++ This is not legal advice, only my opinion +++
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alexu
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Unread post by alexu on

Hello jsherk,

thanks for your reply!!!

You are saying "Most likely the prosecutor will meet with you before everything starts" , what in general is the process, how do I speak to this people? never been in courts before....can I also ask for the plea deal? and if so how do I do that? exact wording I assume cannot be something like "can we do the plea deal " but can it be something like: Sir, can you please offer reduced charge? sorry for probably stupid repeating questions.......


Thanks all,
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jsherk
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Unread post by jsherk on

When you get to the court room, they usually ask you to check in. You can ask the person you check in with if you will be able to speak to the prosecutor, but usually the prosecutor meets with everybody before the court starts anyways.

When you meet with the prosecutor, they may (but do not have to) offer you a plea deal. Usually at this stage they are looking to find out if you are just going to roll over and plead guilty right away. If they do not offer you a plea deal, you can just ask "Would you be willing to drop this to a lesser charge that won't affect my insurance so much?". They may say yes or they may say no.

If they will not offer you any kind of plea deal then, tell them that you want to plead not guilty and get disclosure and set a trial date.

If they DO offer you plea deal, you can:
(1) Just plead guilty and take the plea deal right away (not recommended)
(2) Ask if you can review the disclosure before you decide whether to accept their offer (recommended).
+++ This is not legal advice, only my opinion +++
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alexu
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Unread post by alexu on

Thank you so much jsherk once again!!!


so as it sounds at this point they wont even ask about what happened? no investigation? nothing? so until the trial (if there is) they are fully satisfied with what they see from the policy report?


Another question, say I am lucky and will be offered a good deal whatever it can be, why not to take this (again if offered) right away and forget about the nightmare? I know it is still going to affect my insurance considering I have one minor speeding 15km already and at fault accident......but take the disclosure to review the report in case of possible withdraw of the case?


Thanks again jsherk!
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jsherk
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Unread post by jsherk on

Anything is probably better than a carelss charge so you could just accept whatever they offer and be done with it. But maybe the officers notes do not support the charge of careless at all, so if you took it to trial it would get dropped completely.

Anyways you have to decide what will work for you. If you plan to fight the charge you will either need to hire a good paralegal or spend a lot of time researching and learning how to represent yourself.
+++ This is not legal advice, only my opinion +++
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alexu
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Unread post by alexu on

So quick ***update***:

I was at the courthouse today and prosecutor didnt have my "brief" - I believe is the same as disclosure?

so they said that they cannot do any early resolution without the brief and changed the court date to end of July .....

very strange, because initially they gave me a summons date to Victoria day, then the policemen came to my door and gave me another summons to today......

Also on the day of the accident, the policemen who was on the accident scene didnt give me anything, and 2 hours later another policemen appeared to the hospital and gave me a summons...........I believe they should have something as the court had my name to check in, however the folder was empty!!!


Is it a good or bad thing??? also is that true that they cannot do any plea deal if they dont have that "brief"????


Thank you all,
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jsherk
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Unread post by jsherk on

A brief is usually part of disclosure... it basically summarizes everything for the prosecutor so they know what is going on.

But remember that the prosecutor is not required to offer you any kind of plea deal at all. So if they do decide to offer you a plea, they could offer you one without seeing the brief, but usually they will want to see the brief before they make an offer.

It is a good thing for you that they keep messing up... the more they mess up the better for you in the end.

If one officer was at the scene and another one gave you the summons then this is also good because both officers will have to be at the trial as well as any witnesses.
+++ This is not legal advice, only my opinion +++
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alexu
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Unread post by alexu on

Hi Jsherk,

but from what I understand the officers dont even have to be on the trial as they havent witnessed the accident, is that true?

another thing, the prosecutor told that they cannot even convict me on offence without brief if hypothetically I would of wanted to plead guilty for careless.....is that also true?
and thats also why they cannot do any resolution meetings without having the brief.....but strange thing that they did have my name when I registered/checked in....


I also believe I know why there was two officers involved, since the accident happened in Vaughan and the ambulance took me to the hospital in Richmond Hill and so the officer from Richmond hill came with summons....
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jsherk
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Unread post by jsherk on

The officers have to show up to testify about any statements made by you or witnesses. And they need to testify about identifying you. And they need to testify that they gave you a summons.

They will not be at the summons date as this is not your trial. They do need to be at the actual trial whenever that is set for.

Nothing you are describing is strange... just the way it is.
+++ This is not legal advice, only my opinion +++
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alexu
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Unread post by alexu on

Thank you jsherk for all your answers, super very much appreciated and informative, one more question, can the trial proceed without "Brief" ???
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argyll
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Unread post by argyll on

No, it's how the officer tells the prosecutor what happened.
Former Ontario Police Officer. Advice will become less relevant as the time goes by !
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alexu
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Unread post by alexu on

and another thing, the officer who at the accident scene was male and the officer who gave me the first "incorrectly dated" summons was lady, so when I received the new summons given delivered to the house by some other policemen, there was a name of the lady (same one that gave me the first summons), however there was anywhere a name mentioned of the male policemen who was in the accident scene.........should his name be part of the brief or/and disclosure?


Thank you all!
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argyll
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Unread post by argyll on

Yes. The 'brief' stands for Crown Brief and is where the investigating officer briefs the crown on the incident. We prepare three copies keeping one in the police file and sending two to the Crown's office - one for them and one to be given by way of disclosure.

The Crown Brief must contain all the relevant facts of the case to support the charge. It will have the name of the investigating officer, what they did to determine that an offence had been committed and also details of how you were served an infraction notice or summons to court.




Former Ontario Police Officer. Advice will become less relevant as the time goes by !
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