Hello OHTAers.

Quick question for you.

I have requested a trial date for a speeding charge in Toronto (2700 Eglinton court).

My question - should I request disclosure now or wait until I'm assigned a court date.

Thank you for your advice.

Noah

You should request the disclosure when you get your notice of trial. Ticket combat has a great sample disclosure request. I'd just leave out the phone number so they have to communicate with you in writing.

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What kind of a man would put a known criminal in charge of a major branch of government? Apart from, say, the average voter.

thank you,

can anyone tell me - is it even possible to request disclosure before receiving the letter with the notice of trial date?


Is there a tactical reason not to do so?

Thank you.


Noah

When a person sends in the request to challenge the evidence it obviously goes to the court. When the court makes up the trial notice they send a copy to the officer at the same time. So then the officer seeing the trial notice will now have to go thru the process of putting together the disclosure and submitting it back to court. In the meantime you request disclosure to the court, court now has it from the officer and can in turn send it to you. Simple as cutting down a few trees.

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Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca

I think you have to give them the date and the courtroom in addition to the constable's name so they can contact the right prosecutor. For that reason, I'd wait until you get the notice. I'll give you something to do while waiting for your trial...
Scan your ticket and keep it safe. You never know when you'll lose the paper copy. If you have all of your documents scanned, you can at least reprint whatever's missing.

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What kind of a man would put a known criminal in charge of a major branch of government? Apart from, say, the average voter.

Yah! And then you can link it to a traffic forum and canvas the members to send lots and lots of money to pay for the team of high-priced lawyers you've hired (hint, hint!) ;)

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Birthdate in 1903? Holy *EDIT* you age well.

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You were born on 33-rd of March? How does that work?

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"The more laws, the less justice" - Marcus Tullius Cicero
"The hardest thing to explain is the obvious"

www.OHTA.ca & www.OntarioHighwayTrafficAct.com

Calendar must've been different way back then.

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Couple of points. Disclosure requests are made to the Crown, not the court. I strongly urge people to request disclosure right away. Some jurisdictions schedule trials quickly, within two months and have trials just a couple of months later. With four months from offence to trial, this doesn't give enough time to request disclosure and follow-up.

Second point, to prepare an 11b argument you should clearly indicate wanting to deal with the charge as soon as possible. Requesting disclosure and requesting and early trial date shows that you are diligent about wanting to defend against the charge and that you have not waived any of your rights under the Charter, specifically your right to a speedy trial. Silence is considered neutral, meaning you not doing anything until the trial is scheduled does not count against you. But it also doesn't count for you. If you were actively seeking disclosure and requesting an early trial date, the court must acknowledge that and it puts more pressure on the Crown to justify the delay. Otherwise there is a danger that your inaction can be interpreted as satisfaction with the pace.

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Fight Your Ticket!

Thanks Ticketcombat.

Love your site by the way.

I shall request disclosure from the prosecution right away.

I can't actually read the officer's name - so I assume I can just give them the offence notice number and they can figure that out.

Does anyone here know the fax number for prosecutor's office at 2700 Eglinton Avenue W in Toronto?

Anyone know the time trials usually take at this location?

Cheers,


Noah

Thanks for the comments on my site. I appreciate it.

Toronto fax numbers are on my site (under Step 4 Disclosure of course!):

Offence number begining with "4862 999 00 XXXXXXXX-00"
2700 Eglington Avenue West
tel: 416-338-6882
fax: 416-338-7322

Trial should be about one year from offence date, give or take.

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Fight Your Ticket!

I recall reading about a strategy of not requesting disclosure at all! Trial by ambush I think they called it. Then ask for dismissal if ALL relevant documents aren't produced by the crown at trial. Any thoughts?

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Hi there,

I'm actively following this site and ticketcombat to defend my charge for careless driving (HTA 130). These are great material and all are FREE... Thank you to all of you for taking the time to help people like us. It's also good for democracy in general if people know their rights and understand the law.

I had a trial date today and it has been adjourned because of inadequate disclosure. The prosecutor was determined to go to trial as the cop and witnesses showed up today but he couldn't as I had asked for a complete and specific disclosure as per ticketcombat's sample.

The judge (Justice of Peace) agreed that the Crown must provide both sides of officer's tickets however to my great surprise he discouraged me for a pre-trial interview. He also mentioned that it's a criminal offence if I try to persuade or threaten the witnesses in any way (I already knew that by reading ticketcombat website).

He also mentioned that the Crown can only produce information that they possess and he also said the Crown doesn't have to provide address, occupation and criminal record of witnesses.

I'm not able to find the law itself or gazette that mandates the Crown to provide such information for HTA violation. I understand it's my decision whether I should go for a pre-trial interview or not once I see that information but the Crown is legally obligated to provide such information when the defendant is specifically asking for it.

Please share your knowledge and experience and let me know am I missing something here?

Thank you all for responding...

Andy

A couple of points. You may not always get the criminal record. It speaks to the credibility of the witness(es) but they may not have a criminal record! If the police did not note what the occupation of the witness is than they would not have that either. But they definitely will have the name and contact info.

Be extremely careful with the pre-trial interview. It may not be your intention to tamper with a witness but you must also be PERCIEVED to be neutral. They may view your actions or questions differently than you. Always ask the Crown to attend the interview with you to be safe. And bring a witnesses with you as well.

You can ask your questions in writing if you are uncomfortable with a face to face. There is also "will say" statements of what they heard/saw/did. You've got options.

The point is you want to prepare your defence IN ADVANCE of your trial by knowing what the witnesses saw. You don't want to be caught at trial with information or testimony that was unexpected.

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Fight Your Ticket!