http://www.thestar.com/News/Ontario/article/538115 I watched a 1-hour interview with Mr. Mulcahy on Legal Briefs with Lorne Honickman a few weeks ago. I felt terrible for him because he lost his 18-yr.old son at a very young age. When I listened to his pleas for "no tolerance" legislation with regard to drinking and speeding, I really did sympathize with him but knew legislation would never be passed based solely on his emotional recommendations. Of course, I was wrong. We can't ignore the number of drinks this 18-yr.old quickly consumed, then ripped down the road at a blistering pace (as confirmed by his surviving girlfriend). But we already have plenty of harsh laws prohibiting such behavior. Mr. Mulcahy suggested that if his son had lost his license to the two speeding tickets he had received months earlier, he would not have been able to be driving that night and would still be alive. With all due respect, this is nonsense. I just can't see how speeding tickets relate to drinking and driving. And not just drinking, but drinking a ridiculous amount (my kids would use the word "s**tfaced). All these new laws are going to do is harshly punish rural families. It seems that most legislation comes from leaders familiar with big cities such as Toronto or Ottawa. They say things like, "maybe riding the bus for a few months will teach them a lesson". Well guess what gentlemen, many of Ontario residents don't HAVE bus service. many of use live over 20 miles from the nearest town. Taking the license from a kid in this situation (for one speeding ticket) will surely spell the end of his/her job and place undo pressure on the parents. Is this really what our government wants? To punish parents for raising a child that has the gaul to rack up ONE lousy speeding ticket?? Perhaps, instead, we should be THANKED for instilling in our children that it is NOT OK to drink yourself stupid and fly down the road. Maybe that speeding ticket isn't a clear indication that a kid is going to go out a kill someone. Maybe it's just what it is... A SPEEDING TICKET! As much as I feel for Mr. Mulcahy, I don't see why he feels he must punish me and my kids with "zero-tolerance" legislation. To suggest "we" cannot stop at one or two drinks is an unfair statement. Everyday, thousands of young Ontarians stop at one or two drinks without ANY difficulty! Yet now they're going to be slammed for acting in a mature, self-controlled manner! Possible Scenario: - Take my oldest boy who's 6', 200lbs. - He spends the day helping me with yard work. - After a hard days work, I thank him over barbecued steak and a beer. - He then hops in his car and heads over to his girlfriends. - On the way, he's stopped and relieved of his license due the the single beer that has NO effect over his abilities behind the wheel. Is this really how we want to live our lives in this Province?
Theoretically the demerit point system is supposed to do that. As drivers "gather" more points they clearly exhibit an inability to drive eventually leading to a license suspension. People should not be penalized for their youth. The assumption that young people have no maturity and therefore we need to enact laws to protect them is nuts. These politicians should be at the airport welcoming home our combat troops and then explain to them why they are not mature enough to drive without "protective" legislation.
Radar Identified wrote:
Would rather see re-testing & higher standards put in place than anything else. Some people get really good at driving; others learn, barely pass their driving test, then continue to get worse, bumping and crashing into things constantly without realizing that they are inspirations for public transit, so they continue to drive. (Like Michael from CWD2.) Subsequent re-testing might get some of them, who are disasters waiting to happen, off the road.
Theoretically the demerit point system is supposed to do that. As drivers "gather" more points they clearly exhibit an inability to drive eventually leading to a license suspension.
People should not be penalized for their youth. The assumption that young people have no maturity and therefore we need to enact laws to protect them is nuts. These politicians should be at the airport welcoming home our combat troops and then explain to them why they are not mature enough to drive without "protective" legislation.
Last edited by ticketcombat on Sat May 02, 2009 5:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Theoretically... but in practice? We have motorists who have been in 40+ collisions and are still licensed. I think the demerit point system and enforcement should a "backstop" to ensure safe driving, not the primary method. Besides, I think most people could use refreshers/pointers on driving every now and then. Doesn't mean that the re-testing has to be 100% perfect, but a driving examiner could, in a post-test de-brief, point out the poor driving tendencies that some of us have. Driving on Lawrence Avenue & Mount Pleasant earlier today made me think of that. :x I think there's a balance, but I'm afraid that Ontario has gone so far to restrict young drivers that we may actually see our collision and death rates go up. Give a person no responsibility and they'll never be responsible. Some have suggested "raising the driving age." What will that achieve? A person with 0 years of driving experience at 16 has the same amount of driving experience as someone who's 25 and has 0 years of driving experience. The difference is, as you start getting into your 20s, it becomes harder to learn things, particularly visuo-spatial/psycho-motor things like driving, so it would take longer for people to learn how to drive properly, and they'd probably crash their cars more. I think the drinking & driving rules we had for young/new drivers was fine. Maybe just take Bear's suggestion: "G" driver must be at least 19 yrs of age.
Theoretically... but in practice? We have motorists who have been in 40+ collisions and are still licensed. I think the demerit point system and enforcement should a "backstop" to ensure safe driving, not the primary method.
Besides, I think most people could use refreshers/pointers on driving every now and then. Doesn't mean that the re-testing has to be 100% perfect, but a driving examiner could, in a post-test de-brief, point out the poor driving tendencies that some of us have. Driving on Lawrence Avenue & Mount Pleasant earlier today made me think of that.
I think there's a balance, but I'm afraid that Ontario has gone so far to restrict young drivers that we may actually see our collision and death rates go up. Give a person no responsibility and they'll never be responsible. Some have suggested "raising the driving age." What will that achieve? A person with 0 years of driving experience at 16 has the same amount of driving experience as someone who's 25 and has 0 years of driving experience. The difference is, as you start getting into your 20s, it becomes harder to learn things, particularly visuo-spatial/psycho-motor things like driving, so it would take longer for people to learn how to drive properly, and they'd probably crash their cars more. I think the drinking & driving rules we had for young/new drivers was fine. Maybe just take Bear's suggestion: "G" driver must be at least 19 yrs of age.
I think parenting makes a far greater difference than some magical 'age of responsibility', which brings us back to education. There is probably a medical reason not to let your 8-year-old get drunk, but once you hit puberty, I think your capacity for reasoning and processing information is about equal to an adult. The only thing lacking is experience. Make it against the law to get that experience, and you just end up with older-looking children. Heck, I first got drunk when I was two years old. Look how I turned out. :D
I think parenting makes a far greater difference than some magical 'age of responsibility', which brings us back to education. There is probably a medical reason not to let your 8-year-old get drunk, but once you hit puberty, I think your capacity for reasoning and processing information is about equal to an adult. The only thing lacking is experience. Make it against the law to get that experience, and you just end up with older-looking children.
Heck, I first got drunk when I was two years old. Look how I turned out.
PK...have to stop doing that.....making sense that is....
PrincessKyle wrote:
I will say again, All this law does is make young adults look more and more like criminals, instead of people who are just trying to make a life for them selves. The law should be changed to this
Under 19 regardless of license class is zero tolerance. 19+ Normal legal limit..
PK...have to stop doing that.....making sense that is....
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca
Fact is, I don't know how much alcohol intake in how much time will produce 0.04% blood/alcohol level. I am a fairly typical Canadian who rewards myself with a cold beer after cutting the lawn, cleaning the shop, washing the car, etc., etc. Then I'm apt to have another one while barbecuing some burgers. If I run out of BBQ sauce, I'm hoppin' in the car and runnin' down to the store for more. No idea what my blood alcohol level will be. Not gonna' try to figure out the alcohol wheel, I'm just going! I come from a time when impaired driving was tolerated. I know what "real" impairment feels like. I really, really doubt my ability to drive down the road is going to be affected at .04% (or .05%, or whatever the new level is). Also: Stats show a disproportionate number of accidents are caused by new drivers. Well, DUH! They're NEW. I would expect to see 99% of all accidents be caused by new drivers. I think it makes a BIGGER statement that so many EXPERIENCED drivers have accidents. What's that all about? ;)
Fact is, I don't know how much alcohol intake in how much time will produce 0.04% blood/alcohol level. I am a fairly typical Canadian who rewards myself with a cold beer after cutting the lawn, cleaning the shop, washing the car, etc., etc. Then I'm apt to have another one while barbecuing some burgers. If I run out of BBQ sauce, I'm hoppin' in the car and runnin' down to the store for more. No idea what my blood alcohol level will be. Not gonna' try to figure out the alcohol wheel, I'm just going!
I come from a time when impaired driving was tolerated. I know what "real" impairment feels like. I really, really doubt my ability to drive down the road is going to be affected at .04% (or .05%, or whatever the new level is).
Also:
Stats show a disproportionate number of accidents are caused by new drivers. Well, DUH! They're NEW. I would expect to see 99% of all accidents be caused by new drivers. I think it makes a BIGGER statement that so many EXPERIENCED drivers have accidents. What's that all about?
Bookm....think we did this beer ratio thing before. Good quick guideline. (weight, sex will affect it, but this is a standard average) 1 drink (beer, glass wine, 1 shot) = 15 mgs of alcohol in 100ml of blood. 2 drinks = 30mgs 3 drinks = 45mgs 4 drinks = 60mgs etc Body Eliminates 15mgs of alcohol per hour.
Bookm....think we did this beer ratio thing before.
Good quick guideline. (weight, sex will affect it, but this is a standard average)
1 drink (beer, glass wine, 1 shot) = 15 mgs of alcohol in 100ml of blood.
2 drinks = 30mgs
3 drinks = 45mgs
4 drinks = 60mgs etc
Body Eliminates 15mgs of alcohol per hour.
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca
I think it's mostly to do with all this population growth. Way back in Bookm's day (1903?), you could be impaired and drive down the road without meeting too many cars (limits the input you have to process and decisions you have to make). If you were impaired enough to crash, chances are you would drive into a ditch and maybe hit a tree. Now, streets are always busy and that ditch has become a busy sidewalk. That "tree" might now be a bus stop. The margin for error becomes very small, though for more rural places like Stratford and even off-season Orillia, all these new strict guidelines seem ridiculous. So once again, we can blame Toronto for being so crowded and making the rest of us suffer. 8) Bear, do you think BAC is a good measure of the level of impairment? The most "impaired" I get is after two beers while fixing the car, then taking it for a test drive around the block. Face is a little red and might seem happier than usual, but my reaction times are okay. Decision making might be affected, so I don't go far or into busy areas. Even being a svelte 200 lbs, I would not be able to drive with four beers (assuming about 1-1.5 beers per hour). 4-6 beers is the area where I just sit on the couch and tell funny (to me) stories. At that rate, CAA's online drunkered meter puts me at just 0.0384 BAC.
I think it's mostly to do with all this population growth. Way back in Bookm's day (1903?), you could be impaired and drive down the road without meeting too many cars (limits the input you have to process and decisions you have to make). If you were impaired enough to crash, chances are you would drive into a ditch and maybe hit a tree. Now, streets are always busy and that ditch has become a busy sidewalk. That "tree" might now be a bus stop. The margin for error becomes very small, though for more rural places like Stratford and even off-season Orillia, all these new strict guidelines seem ridiculous. So once again, we can blame Toronto for being so crowded and making the rest of us suffer.
Bear, do you think BAC is a good measure of the level of impairment? The most "impaired" I get is after two beers while fixing the car, then taking it for a test drive around the block. Face is a little red and might seem happier than usual, but my reaction times are okay. Decision making might be affected, so I don't go far or into busy areas. Even being a svelte 200 lbs, I would not be able to drive with four beers (assuming about 1-1.5 beers per hour). 4-6 beers is the area where I just sit on the couch and tell funny (to me) stories. At that rate, CAA's online drunkered meter puts me at just 0.0384 BAC.
Could be also due to shifting attitudes toward drinking and driving. "One for the road" used to be a literal expression, people would grab a beer and drink it as they drove to their destination. Now we shake our heads at the gall of someone who would stop in traffic, look over at the cop next to them, and proceed to crack open a cold one and chug the beer in front of the officer. And yes, that has happened.
Squishy wrote:
I think it's mostly to do with all this population growth.
Could be also due to shifting attitudes toward drinking and driving. "One for the road" used to be a literal expression, people would grab a beer and drink it as they drove to their destination. Now we shake our heads at the gall of someone who would stop in traffic, look over at the cop next to them, and proceed to crack open a cold one and chug the beer in front of the officer. And yes, that has happened.
Could be also due to shifting attitudes toward drinking and driving. "One for the road" used to be a literal expression, people would grab a beer and drink it as they drove to their destination. Now we shake our heads at the gall of someone who would stop in traffic, look over at the cop next to them, and proceed to crack open a cold one and chug the beer in front of the officer. And yes, that has happened. But the reason why it has become such a social taboo can still be linked to population growth, as the one act of driving drunk starts to affect more people. At least, that's my theory.
Radar Identified wrote:
Squishy wrote:
I think it's mostly to do with all this population growth.
Could be also due to shifting attitudes toward drinking and driving. "One for the road" used to be a literal expression, people would grab a beer and drink it as they drove to their destination. Now we shake our heads at the gall of someone who would stop in traffic, look over at the cop next to them, and proceed to crack open a cold one and chug the beer in front of the officer. And yes, that has happened.
But the reason why it has become such a social taboo can still be linked to population growth, as the one act of driving drunk starts to affect more people. At least, that's my theory.
We are speaking of 2 different things there. There is: 1) Driving with more than 80mgs of alcohol in 100ml of blood. This is the total amount a person has consumed. 2) Impaired driving - if the symptoms and signs are there after 1 drink, theoretically one could be charged with impaired driving. This is how a body has reacted/ been influenced by alcohol (speech, eye colour, face, reaction time, stability etc..)
Squishy wrote:
Bear, do you think BAC is a good measure of the level of impairment?
We are speaking of 2 different things there. There is:
1) Driving with more than 80mgs of alcohol in 100ml of blood. This is the total amount a person has consumed.
2) Impaired driving - if the symptoms and signs are there after 1 drink, theoretically one could be charged with impaired driving. This is how a body has reacted/ been influenced by alcohol (speech, eye colour, face, reaction time, stability etc..)
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca
We are speaking of 2 different things there. There is: 1) Driving with more than 80mgs of alcohol in 100ml of blood. This is the total amount a person has consumed. 2) Impaired driving - if the symptoms and signs are there after 1 drink, theoretically one could be charged with impaired driving. This is how a body has reacted/ been influenced by alcohol (speech, eye colour, face, reaction time, stability etc..) My eyes a green and they stay that way......or do you mean bloodshot??
hwybear wrote:
Squishy wrote:
Bear, do you think BAC is a good measure of the level of impairment?
We are speaking of 2 different things there. There is:
1) Driving with more than 80mgs of alcohol in 100ml of blood. This is the total amount a person has consumed.
2) Impaired driving - if the symptoms and signs are there after 1 drink, theoretically one could be charged with impaired driving. This is how a body has reacted/ been influenced by alcohol (speech, eye colour, face, reaction time, stability etc..)
My eyes a green and they stay that way......or do you mean bloodshot??
http://www.OHTA.ca OR http://www.OntarioTrafficAct.com
I used this before to explain something to some one... this is to show how dumb it is to say that such a high number of young drivers get into accidents, Vs people over the age of 22... if there is a city with 100 drivers in it.. 90 are 21 and under, and 10 are 22 and over, Then it stands to reason that 80% of accidents in that city will involve a young driver no? Thats why the same for males insurance being higher that young females. Because there are more young male drivers on the road than young female drivers, Just like there are more honda civics on the road that other models of cars, and bla bla bla bla The sats show convenient numbers, done on test subjects that are taken in convenient demographics... Im just wondering when there is gunna be a kid wearing a hat in an accident and then that will become a new law too... As some one said on here once before.
I used this before to explain something to some one...
this is to show how dumb it is to say that such a high number of young drivers get into accidents, Vs people over the age of 22...
if there is a city with 100 drivers in it..
90 are 21 and under, and 10 are 22 and over, Then it stands to reason that 80% of accidents in that city will involve a young driver no?
Thats why the same for males insurance being higher that young females. Because there are more young male drivers on the road than young female drivers, Just like there are more honda civics on the road that other models of cars, and bla bla bla bla
The sats show convenient numbers, done on test subjects that are taken in convenient demographics...
Im just wondering when there is gunna be a kid wearing a hat in an accident and then that will become a new law too... As some one said on here once before.
- What ever happened to "Innocent Until Proven Guilty"?
Hi so I have a bizzare situation. Today I received a summons for "being the owner of a motor vehicle bearing Vehicle Identification Number ###, failed to submit the vehicle, equipment or drawn vehicle for inspection or tests as required by an officer" for a vehicle I previously owned. Apparently a violation of HTA 82(9).
The date of offense is June 15, the summons was issued on October 26th and I…
Hi, I need some help for the ticket of lmproper left turn.
When i drove my car from east to west, intending to make a left turn and stop in front of stop line. There was a car in front of me, which has turn on yellow light. The light was turning red and then I thought I cannot leave in the intersection and turned, an incoming car was runing the light and hit me. No one got hurt but both cars had…
Have a ticket in which the radar used was a Genesis VP Directional. I had downloaded the manual for a Genesis VP but I now realize that the unit is not the same so it is the wrong manual. My trial is very soon so I do not have time to ask for disclosure of the manual.
Does anyone have access to an electronic version of the manual for Genesis VP Directional?
I was pulled over today in the city of Oakville for going 75 in a 40 zone. However, I am 100 percent certain that I was going only 50 in the 40 zone. When I was pulled over, I was driving my Dad's car which I felt was the reason I was getting stopped since two teenagers driving a 2013 S Class. He asked does I know why I am being pulled over and I…
I really need help on fighting my 9 tickets i received from one police officer. Here is some background of what happened!
I was caught speeding 66km on a 40km (school zone) on January 29, 2010. I was driving my friend's car and turns out she didnt renew the validation on the vehicle and didnt leave the up to date insurance paper on the car.
Hey question that I think here's probably the best place to get the answer:
I was charged with a careless driving offence in oct, trail in early april, so as of right now my insurance record is 100% clean... except the officer did file an accident report at the scene where I was classified at fault due to it being PI (although very minor). The person I hit did not sue etc, so the insurance company…
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I was passing a vehicle that was going slow for me and there was an oncoming vehicle coming at me. I speed up to get around the person I was passing and the oncoming vehicle turns out to be a cop who turns around and tickets me for going 110km in a 80km zone. How does it work with passing a vehicle? Once I passed the vehicle I went back down to my original speed of just under 100. The officer…
I picked up a brand new (old stock) Fuzzbuster a while ago at auction (wopping $5!!) and I want to mount it on the dash of my old GTO as a cool accessory when I show it at car shows. But I'm not sure if it's legal or not.
Here's my thoughts:
- It is early 70's technology (x-band) so it won't detect modern police radar. That's assuming no police force uses the old x-band frequency.
Hi guys, I'm still a little in shock of getting my first traffic ticket...
On Monday afternoon, I was returning from Toronto to Ottawa on HW416, I was driving about 15 over 100 like always. Then a car came very close to me on the left lane and made me nervous, I speed up unintentionally to pass the car and change lane, but while doing that a police car pull out of the median. He was hiding in…
May i ask this question regarding transport trucks limited to 105 km/h. Moving road blocks or safety?
IMO it isnt speed that kills. I find transport trucks infact help keep the road going. With cars that choose to not move to the right and slow down the middle lane the trucks would try to pass in their passing lane therefore the slower traffic would move right.
Received a notice from the police that a motion is being put forward to adjourn upcoming trial date. Notice indicates that an officer has sworn an affidavit that the crucial witness cannot attend date trial is set for (we know there is a social engagement at 7:30 pm for the witness, trial time is 1:30 pm). This further delay is a big problem to my daughter's case. She is moving away to…
This is what happened. I was travelling west on a four lane city street that was very light with traffic. I was making a left hand turn into a wide driveway of a business. There was traffic lights about 100 yards past the driveway and were red for the east-west traffic. I was in the left lane with my signal on and there was no oncoming traffic due to the red light. I was slowed right down…
I was driving my families older car and got pulled over, and the police officer informed me my plate was dirty. He issued me a ticket of $110 for the 13(2) act and obstruct plate as the offense. He informed me that such a plate could be used to avoid red lights as well as 407 tolls, also that buying a new plate can help to lower the ticket if I fight the charge, and that he also took a picture…
I received a red light camera ticket. In the picture, you see an ambulance in front of me with flashing lights. I had moved to alleviate the traffic behind me for the emergency vehicles coming behind it.
Is this a possible defense, if so, does anyone know any good case law to justify this position?
what happens if they charge someone for driving at 151Km/hr in montreal and they put for trial, appear after some months and sadly lost the trial ?
In montreal its $300 fine and 5demerit points ...
I heard Ontario and Qubec share the information. So once the trial is over ( and when the file moved to ontario) will his car gets towed and licence get suspended for 7days (later to 30 days ) ? and he…
I got a notice in the mail that trial is set four weeks from today, so it's time to request disclosure. I have zero chance of getting an 11b since trial is less than two months after the offense date and the officer did not reduce the charge. I really want to try and create delays on the trial, to reduce the chance of the officer showing up on multiple occasions. Is there any known loop-holes…
This weekend my father was involved in an accident with a transit bus in Burlington, ON. After the police showed up he was charged with "Fail to obey stop sign" Sec. 136(1)(a). At this particular intersection there NO stop signs but there are traffic lights. There is construction going on there so one of the light posts is smaller.
Driving conditions were terribly wet and visibility was low.…
So my boyfriend and I recently started dating. I have a vehicle that was insured. Insurance cost too much and I found it was just as easy to walk to work due to how close it was. But I didn't want to get rid of my car just yet, plus I'm still making payments on it as well. When we moved into our appartment together, I had it towed to my parking spot out back.
I was making a left hand legal turn on a green light, a driver came through the lane I was supposed to be going into ran the red and hit me head on as I was turning into my lane. When the officer came he was telling me that I was racing and driving recklessly because apparently there was reports of street racing in the area. I was not charged on the scene for this but I'm scared i am going to be…
I got a ticket for failure to surrender insurance because I did not have my new insurance stubs with me, just a bunch of expired ones. My policy number has not changed, so I asked the officer to just run the policy number so I could prove that I was in fact insured. He said they don't have that ability, handed me the ticket and reminded me that my car could have been impounded.
So I'm in a bit of a pickle and would appreciate if someone could clarify something for me.
I'm less than a month away (test on April 6th) from getting my full G license, and got a speeding ticket recently. The ticket was for 49km/h over the posted limit of 100km/h on the 403 in Oakville/Halton region, but was reduced from the initial ~60km/h over.
