OK so now i am pissed that i didnt read a site like this beforehand I arrive at the court for my trial date for my go through yellow light ticket. The officer does not show up, the crown corners me outside and states that they are moving my case to another day. i go into the court stand there like a dufus while the crown moves my trial to another die, i was just there wondering heh isnt my ticket supposed to be tossed? Any options i can follow to appeal this? or Any options on my yellow ticket, i was just going to state as it was january and there was melting snow i did not feel i could stop safely.
OK so now i am pissed that i didnt read a site like this beforehand
I arrive at the court for my trial date for my go through yellow light ticket.
The officer does not show up, the crown corners me outside and states that they are moving my case to another day.
i go into the court stand there like a dufus while the crown moves my trial to another die, i was just there wondering heh isnt my ticket supposed to be tossed?
Any options i can follow to appeal this?
or Any options on my yellow ticket, i was just going to state as it was january and there was melting snow i did not feel i could stop safely.
Not sure about appealing. There may be a chance to quash on unreasonable delay of trial, but I can't say for sure at this point. How long ago did you request the trial? Was it January of this year? If they try to corner you and tell you that they're moving the date again, politely tell them "no you're not," and then strenuously object to the JP, telling them that you have sacrificed time off work (again) and the Crown has failed in its obligations to prepare for trial at the required time. Now, as for the charge you're facing, where was the officer when he observed you allegedly disobey the amber light? (Behind, other side of the intersection, cross-traffic?) Have you made a disclosure request yet? Your strategy for the trial should be workable, especially if the officer was not directly behind you when you proceeded through the amber light. Just state, as you were going to, that you were travelling at what you believed was a reasonable and prudent speed for the road conditions given your driving experience, you noticed the amber light, and reached the conclusion that the vehicle could not be stopped safely, so you proceeded with caution. Write down section 144 (15) of the Highway Traffic Act, available here, if you haven't already: http://www.ontariohighwaytrafficact.com/topic76.html Quote it in court; ask the officer if he agrees that this is the section he charged you under. If he was not directly following you, then ask him: Did you drive over the section of road I was on to verify its exact conditions? How can you be sure that I would have been able to safely stop my vehicle? How close could I have been to the intersection to have safely stopped it? Just because he was at the same intersection does not mean that the part he was on had exactly the same level of traction (or lack thereof) that yours did. Stick to your story, show that you complied with the law and then ask for the charge to be dismissed.
Not sure about appealing. There may be a chance to quash on unreasonable delay of trial, but I can't say for sure at this point. How long ago did you request the trial? Was it January of this year?
If they try to corner you and tell you that they're moving the date again, politely tell them "no you're not," and then strenuously object to the JP, telling them that you have sacrificed time off work (again) and the Crown has failed in its obligations to prepare for trial at the required time.
Now, as for the charge you're facing, where was the officer when he observed you allegedly disobey the amber light? (Behind, other side of the intersection, cross-traffic?) Have you made a disclosure request yet?
Your strategy for the trial should be workable, especially if the officer was not directly behind you when you proceeded through the amber light. Just state, as you were going to, that you were travelling at what you believed was a reasonable and prudent speed for the road conditions given your driving experience, you noticed the amber light, and reached the conclusion that the vehicle could not be stopped safely, so you proceeded with caution.
Write down section 144 (15) of the Highway Traffic Act, available here, if you haven't already:
Quote it in court; ask the officer if he agrees that this is the section he charged you under. If he was not directly following you, then ask him: Did you drive over the section of road I was on to verify its exact conditions? How can you be sure that I would have been able to safely stop my vehicle? How close could I have been to the intersection to have safely stopped it? Just because he was at the same intersection does not mean that the part he was on had exactly the same level of traction (or lack thereof) that yours did. Stick to your story, show that you complied with the law and then ask for the charge to be dismissed.
thanks for the great reply lots of information the crown gave me a disclosure form to fill out at my first trial date, which i did 3 weeks ago but havent received anything. should i let this slide till the trial and rack up an adjournment if they try and give the discosure at the trial? Can i file for disclosure of the officers pay records for the week of the trial to see if he claimed a sick day, or got paid his overtime for the trial day which he did not show up?
thanks for the great reply lots of information
the crown gave me a disclosure form to fill out at my first trial date, which i did 3 weeks ago but havent received anything.
should i let this slide till the trial and rack up an adjournment if they try and give the discosure at the trial?
Can i file for disclosure of the officers pay records for the week of the trial
to see if he claimed a sick day, or got paid his overtime for the trial day which he did not show up?
Voretik, you need to give more info so people can help you. what was the offence date and where was it? what was your first trial date? where was the court? what is your next trial date that they put off to?
Voretik, you need to give more info so people can help you.
what was the offence date and where was it?
what was your first trial date? where was the court?
what is your next trial date that they put off to?
Make another disclosure request, but make sure it is in writing either via fax or certified mail. If they still fail to give you disclosure, 15 days in advance of your new trial date, file a motion for a stay based on no disclosure. That way the charge is dead. You can make a disclosure request for anything, but whether you're entitled to as part of your defence is a different matter. In this case, I don't think a JP would agree that it would make any difference to your defence, so they likely won't toss the charge on the grounds of improper disclosure if you don't receive the pay records.
verotik wrote:
should i let this slide till the trial and rack up an adjournment if they try and give the discosure at the trial?
Make another disclosure request, but make sure it is in writing either via fax or certified mail. If they still fail to give you disclosure, 15 days in advance of your new trial date, file a motion for a stay based on no disclosure. That way the charge is dead.
verotik wrote:
Can i file for disclosure of the officers pay records for the week of the trial
to see if he claimed a sick day, or got paid his overtime for the trial day which he did not show up?
You can make a disclosure request for anything, but whether you're entitled to as part of your defence is a different matter. In this case, I don't think a JP would agree that it would make any difference to your defence, so they likely won't toss the charge on the grounds of improper disclosure if you don't receive the pay records.
my latest court date is tomorrow, and i havent received the crowns disclosure forms, from what i have been reading if they pawn it on me tomorrow i should ask for a stay?
my latest court date is tomorrow, and i havent received the crowns disclosure forms, from what i have been reading if they pawn it on me tomorrow i should ask for a stay?
To request a stay you must actually make an application at least 20 days in advance of your court date. The justice may not grant you one. However, you can force an adjournment or a withdrawl. Refuse to accept anything from the prosecutor before trial if they try to hand you something. When it's your turn up to bat, state you did not receive disclosure. They may try and pressure you. They may ask "what do you want to do?" State you have not received any evidence of guilt, so how can there be a trial? Mention there has already been one adjournment. A second one would be unfair (it isn't really, but say it anyway) and the Crown is attempting to prosecute the charge through attrition, forcing delay after delay in order to wear you down, miss work, pay an economic price for your innocence and appear at court unprepared for trial. This is unacceptable. Then ask the justice, "what do you want to do about this?" Watch their faces. Enjoy.
To request a stay you must actually make an application at least 20 days in advance of your court date. The justice may not grant you one. However, you can force an adjournment or a withdrawl. Refuse to accept anything from the prosecutor before trial if they try to hand you something. When it's your turn up to bat, state you did not receive disclosure.
They may try and pressure you. They may ask "what do you want to do?" State you have not received any evidence of guilt, so how can there be a trial? Mention there has already been one adjournment. A second one would be unfair (it isn't really, but say it anyway) and the Crown is attempting to prosecute the charge through attrition, forcing delay after delay in order to wear you down, miss work, pay an economic price for your innocence and appear at court unprepared for trial. This is unacceptable. Then ask the justice, "what do you want to do about this?"
I arrived for court nice and early, i had my lil one with me so we were waiting outside quite a while. At my turn they started off if i was ready for my trial etc. No i have not received disclosure from the crown, which she promptly gave me her sheet, the JP asked if i need time to read it lol. I said yes, i would like to request to adjourn to another day to have time to read it. She had expected me to read it right there while standing there! So i go back on Sept 9th still not long enough of a delay to get it tossed so i will have to say what i wanted to say the first time when the cop didnt show up. "your honor i did not feel it was safe to stop on the wet pavement at the yellow light" Today was all about me having them jump through my adjournment hoop. having it tossed would have been nice but heh
I arrived for court nice and early, i had my lil one with me so we were waiting outside quite a while.
At my turn they started off if i was ready for my trial etc. No i have not received disclosure from the crown, which she promptly gave me her sheet, the JP asked if i need time to read it lol. I said yes, i would like to request to adjourn to another day to have time to read it. She had expected me to read it right there while standing there!
So i go back on Sept 9th still not long enough of a delay to get it tossed so i will have to say what i wanted to say the first time when the cop didnt show up. "your honor i did not feel it was safe to stop on the wet pavement at the yellow light"
Today was all about me having them jump through my adjournment hoop. having it tossed would have been nice but heh
i wish i had checked on here again this morning before court i would have loved to say that. like someone said in another thread, that yellow ticket is an invitation to play the game.. lol
ticketcombat wrote:
To request a stay you must actually make an application at least 20 days in advance of your court date. The justice may not grant you one. However, you can force an adjournment or a withdrawl. Refuse to accept anything from the prosecutor before trial if they try to hand you something. When it's your turn up to bat, state you did not receive disclosure.
They may try and pressure you. They may ask "what do you want to do?" State you have not received any evidence of guilt, so how can there be a trial? Mention there has already been one adjournment. A second one would be unfair (it isn't really, but say it anyway) and the Crown is attempting to prosecute the charge through attrition, forcing delay after delay in order to wear you down, miss work, pay an economic price for your innocence and appear at court unprepared for trial. This is unacceptable. Then ask the justice, "what do you want to do about this?"
Watch their faces. Enjoy.
i wish i had checked on here again this morning before court i would have loved to say that.
like someone said in another thread, that yellow ticket is an invitation to play the game.. lol
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