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Ontario Highway Traffic Act

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witness is lying
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 12:15 am 
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Hi everyone, several months ago, I scratched a stop sign. I had not noticed the stop sign has any tilted or broken. The car went to the grass and pulled by a car that passed by later on. During the pulling, towing company came. After we thanked the guy helping us pull the car back to road, we checked car. left fender and light got damaged, the rest are all fine. Left light still signal. The towing guy got off his truck and looked at car too. He said we may get pulled off by the police if we drove this car on the road. We thought he just want to tow my car and make money. because the car is fine to drive, so we left. The guy called police and we got caught by the police on the road. Police told me that the towing guy told us he had already called the police and the police was on the way to the scene. I immediately said the towing guy was lying, he never said that. I got the disclosure and found that he told police that he said that sentence three times to us but the police did not record I said the guy was lying. The towing guy's statement is definitely bull *EDIT*. But he is regarded as the witness besides people sit in my car. What can I do to nullify his statement? I really need helps. Thank you very much!


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Re: witness is lying
PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 12:33 am 
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what exactly were you charged with?


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Re: witness is lying
PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 12:05 pm 
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I was charged with careless driving, fail to remain and fail to report.


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Re: witness is lying
PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 4:21 pm 
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What is your defense going to be? How are you going to explain your car ending up on the grass, requiring a tow truck to get it unstuck (but not really noticing the full extent of the damage when you were out of the car) and likely having damage of more than $1000 which required you to report it? Refuting the tow truck driver's statements will only be a VERY small piece of the puzzle you need to worry about. You've got A LOT bigger issues to contend with.


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Re: witness is lying
PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:04 am 
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And the tow truck driver does not have to tell you he called police. In fact he can say no so the person stay around.

Unless there is something else he lied about. Your original post is not that clear.

OPS


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Re: witness is lying
PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 2:19 pm 
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You are wasting your time. Whether or not the tow truck driver told you he was going to call the police or not isn't an issue.

Your alleged careless driving isn't the tow truck drivers fault. You admit you lost control.

Your alleged fail to remain isn't the tow truck drivers fault, whether he is there to tell you to stay or not. It's your duty as a driver to stay as there's been damage to the city from your vehicle. You don't need someone to threaten to call the cops on you.

Your alleged fail to report isn't the tow truck drivers fault. Again, any damage to the highway needs to be reported. You didn't do that.

You are not denying you lost control of your vehicle. You are not denying you left the scene of an accident where two parties (you and the city) sustained damaged. You are not denying you didn't report the damage to the highway. What you are denying is whether the tow truck driver gave you a warning about calling the police. He doesn't have to warn you. There's little doubt in my mind there's more to this story. Doesn't matter either way.

Your current argument is in no way beneficial to your case. It's a big waste of time. Either concentrate your efforts elsewhere or you're going to be in for a big shock come trial date.


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Re: witness is lying
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 2:02 am 
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Hi Bend, Thank you very much for your answer. Can you tell me which Highway traffic act shows I have to stay if the stop sign got scratched? Note: I did not notice it is scratched at the time since it is not tilted, not falling down. But the towing guy said it was a kind of scar in his report. I know that if the damage is not apparently higher than $1000, I don't need to report immediately. If I don't need to report immediately, what's the purpose to remain at the scene? Can I get back home and find police station near my home and report it?
What I am concerning is that, if the towing guys lied to say that he told us the police was on the way, but we left. He is the only witness besides the people sit in my car. Will it cause trouble when I defend in the court?
Hope you can give some advice. Thanks.


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Re: witness is lying
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 3:46 am 
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labuser wrote:
Can you tell me which Highway traffic act shows I have to stay if the stop sign got scratched? Note: I did not notice it is scratched at the time since it is not tilted, not falling down. But the towing guy said it was a kind of scar in his report. I know that if the damage is not apparently higher than $1000, I don't need to report immediately. If I don't need to report immediately, what's the purpose to remain at the scene? Can I get back home and find police station near my home and report it?


All damage to public property needs to be reported. Damages any shrub, tree, pole, light, sign, sod or other property on the highway or a fence bordering the highway shall forthwith report the damage to a police officer.

labuser wrote:
What I am concerning is that, if the towing guys lied to say that he told us the police was on the way, but we left. He is the only witness besides the people sit in my car. Will it cause trouble when I defend in the court?


Personally, I suggest you stop focusing on the tow truck driver and contact someone to represent you in court. Whether he told you to stay or go isn't going to matter.


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Re: witness is lying
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 6:25 pm 
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Hi Bend, under which HTA? I cannot find it. Please tell me the number. Thanks.


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Re: witness is lying
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 6:36 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:49 pm
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Location: Ontario
Section 201

Quote:
201. Every person who, as a result of an accident or otherwise, operates or drives a vehicle or leads, rides or drives an animal upon a highway and thereby damages any shrub, tree, pole, light, sign, sod or other property on the highway or a fence bordering the highway shall forthwith report the damage to a police officer.


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Re: witness is lying
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 2:42 pm 
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but I am not charged with HTA 201, I am charged with HTA199(1).


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Re: witness is lying
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 8:18 pm 
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labuser wrote:
but I am not charged with HTA 201, I am charged with HTA199(1).


What did the officer write in the disclosure?


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Re: witness is lying
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 9:27 pm 
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He wrote I hit the stop sign since I told him. he did not know what happens, so he only listened to witness's testimony (towing guy), i think. I did not notice it was scratched at that time. but the towing guy wrote this on the report.


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Re: witness is lying
PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 11:13 pm 
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labuser wrote:
He wrote I hit the stop sign since I told him. he did not know what happens, so he only listened to witness's testimony (towing guy), i think. I did not notice it was scratched at that time. but the towing guy wrote this on the report.


The damage to your own vehicle is also a factor in reporting an accident.

Post your disclosure in its entirety and maybe you'll get more help.


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Re: witness is lying
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 11:22 pm 
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Hi Bend, I just feel the disclosure is a bit private, so I am not going to post it now.

If my estimation of the damage of car is not larger than 1000 (car + sign post), can i leave and not report immediately? What do you think about immediately and forthwith? are they the same?

Will my charge be changed from HTA 199 to HTA 201 during trial?


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