Our website is made possible by displaying online advertisements to our visitors.
Please consider supporting us by disabling your ad blocker.

Ontario Highway Traffic Act

Discuss the Ontario Highway Traffic Act.


Post Your Traffic Ticket, and Get Help!


The Ontario Traffic Ticket Forum!


All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 
Check It Out
No unread posts New Set Fines Starting Sept 1st, 2015! Read and Learn Here.
  Print view

What to do if you witness an HTA infraction
Author Message
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:20 am 
Offline
Jr. Member

Joined: Sun May 29, 2011 9:35 pm
Posts: 50
What can you do if you witness an HTA infraction (or worse) but have no cell phone with you? I'll give an example I personally experienced.

Several years ago, I was driving on a 400 series highway, where one highway merges with another. There was a yellow speed limit posted of 70 kmh (which is the recommended speed but the limit was 100 kmh). I was in the left lane and another car was in the right lane doing around the 70 kmh limit. There were no other cars nearby. As I approached him, the other driver very suddenly swerved into my left lane and I had to slam on the brakes and swerve to avoid a collision. To say I was dumbfounded would be an understatement. I almost went off the road and attribute not doing so to the Brembo brakes I had. I drove back onto the road and slowly caught up to the other driver. I saw him point to a yellow speed limit marker of 70 kmh and then understood that he was angry he thought I was speeding (even though I legally was not), and decided to tell me so, in his own demented, vigilante way.

I was very upset but didn't have my cell phone on me at the time to call anyone. I decided to follow him, at a safe distance hoping to come across a PC. I did not threaten him or make any indications to him other than to quietly follow him - we were both doing the speed limit at this point (traffic was heavy). He apparently didn't like me following and signalled to me that he was going to call the police, by holding up his cell phone - which was exactly what I hoped he would (but he didn't). I followed him for several more km until he suddenly dashed from the centre lane (it was 3 lanes) onto an exit ramp. I followed him (signalling and checking my lanes appropriately) and at the bottom of the exit ramp was a set of traffic lights - he proceeded to blow right through a red light. At that point I decided to stop following as he was obviously out of control and I was concerned he would end up killing someone. Plus I wasn't going to break the law to follow.

The question is, what were my options? I didn't have a cellphone but I did get his tag and description of his vehicle (I still have them). Afterward, I decided not to report him as I thought it would become my word against his and without proof, I would have nothing. What recourse would I have? He could have very easily killed me that day - I could have been found dead at a highway curve without him ever being attributed to causing the accident. It definitely destroyed my trust and confidence in other drivers - there are some really stupid people out there.

Your opinions (professional or not) are appreciated. Thanks.


Top
 Profile  
 
Re: What to do if you witness an HTA infraction
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 1:34 am 
Offline
High Authority

Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:49 pm
Posts: 2110
Location: Ontario
Simply contact the police when safe to do so. Once you have the other vehicle's information though (i.e. licence plate), I would stop following. You may have had good intentions, but it could easily make the situation worse.


Top
 Profile  
 
Re: What to do if you witness an HTA infraction
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 2:36 am 
Offline
Sr. Member

Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 8:08 pm
Posts: 550
I don't find this story to be other-worldly, i've seen a lot of road rage in my time, especially when I took the bus ... i still remember it clear as day, a purple 4-door sedan came infront our bus and just started brake checking to the point the driver was forced to make a hard stop, which ejected several people from their seats

I see a lot of this brake-checking, vigilante attitude on the passing lanes of highways as well ... i honestly just feel like adding metal guard around my front bumper and just pit-manoeuvre them into an overpass... i mean if they want me to hit them? why not give it to em?


Top
 Profile  
 
Re: What to do if you witness an HTA infraction
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 2:58 pm 
Offline
Jr. Member

Joined: Sun May 29, 2011 9:35 pm
Posts: 50
Stanton wrote:
Simply contact the police when safe to do so. Once you have the other vehicle's information though (i.e. licence plate), I would stop following. You may have had good intentions, but it could easily make the situation worse.


True, following him only seemed to antagonize him and that wasn't my intent. The fact that he was doing some really irrational things should have been an indicator to stay away but I couldn't think of anything else to do at that exact moment. I certainly am a lot more cautious now - I stay way clear of idiots like this.

But unless I had it on video or a witness, what could the police have actually done if I had called them? It's my word against his.


Top
 Profile  
 
Re: What to do if you witness an HTA infraction
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 5:08 pm 
Offline
Jr. Member

Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2011 5:21 pm
Posts: 77
You can report it to the police, but nothing can really be done. The cops may watch out for a car matching his description for a short while (to see if they can catch him in the act), but not much else they can do. Though I've heard of instances where people have gotten so many complaints against them that they get a letter sent to their house, though I'm not sure how much truth there is to that.


Top
 Profile  
 
Re: What to do if you witness an HTA infraction
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 5:24 pm 
Offline
Sr. Member

Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2009 10:06 pm
Posts: 354
FIDO. F$#K it drive on. It is a highway traffic infraction. Everyone has done something others have seen or annoyed other drivers. You were not hurt, No collision and You are not in danger once the vehicle is gone.

We get calls like this all the time. "A blue car cut me off on the 417." or a blue car is changing lanes fast . No plate no nothing. I am not sure why people think this is a an emergency and call 911.

OPS


Top
 Profile  
 
Re: What to do if you witness an HTA infraction
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 6:30 pm 
Offline
Jr. Member

Joined: Sun May 29, 2011 9:35 pm
Posts: 50
OPS Copper wrote:
FIDO. F$#K it drive on. It is a highway traffic infraction. Everyone has done something others have seen or annoyed other drivers. You were not hurt, No collision and You are not in danger once the vehicle is gone.

We get calls like this all the time. "A blue car cut me off on the 417." or a blue car is changing lanes fast . No plate no nothing. I am not sure why people think this is a an emergency and call 911.

OPS


Agreed. It wasn't an emergency (unless I had crashed) and I'm not perfect either - I've cut other drivers off unintentionally but I acknowledge it and apologize.
But this instance was intentional, unprovoked and very sudden (and ironically, while I was legally doing the speed limit).
I get cut off, etc almost every day due to other drivers inattentiveness or rookie drivers, but this guy was something else... it was the ruthlessness and deliberateness plus a total disregard for my safety that was frankly, bone-chilling. And he was OK with his action based on how he behaved afterward.

I know police agencies use occurrence based systems to track complainants, victims, etc but do they enter every little complaint... I doubt it. So a guy like this could do it all day long and unless he finally causes damage, injuries or death, he won't be tracked. And by then, it's too late. In my case, if I hadn't stopped in time and had gone off the road, he would have caused damage, injury or even my death and would have been unaccountable for it. There were no cars around so no witnesses...


Top
 Profile  
 
Re: What to do if you witness an HTA infraction
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 7:38 pm 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:26 pm
Posts: 2881
Location: Toronto
The guy who cut you off sounds like a total nut-job.

Lucky you were able to avoid the crash, and he was also lucky that it was you, and not someone who was equally crazy as he is, or possibly armed. Sooner or later, if he insists upon continuing that sort of behaviour, he will run into someone who is.

_________________
* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca


Top
 Profile  
 
Re: What to do if you witness an HTA infraction
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 11:15 pm 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2008 7:21 am
Posts: 2933
Location: In YOUR rearview mirror!
an offence notice for an HTA infraction could be issued to the driver. Now the variables...
- are you willing to come to court and testify, should the driver challenge the offence notice?
- did you see the officer stop the vehicle, thus being the person driving at that time is now identified

_________________
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca


Top
 Profile  
 
Re: What to do if you witness an HTA infraction
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 2:41 pm 
Offline
Jr. Member

Joined: Sun May 29, 2011 9:35 pm
Posts: 50
hwybear wrote:
an offence notice for an HTA infraction could be issued to the driver. Now the variables...
- are you willing to come to court and testify, should the driver challenge the offence notice?
- did you see the officer stop the vehicle, thus being the person driving at that time is now identified


Thanks for responding hwybear.
1. I certainly would be willing to testify.
2. I don't understand this question since no officer actually stopped him - he got away from me (by blowing a red light) before I could find or attract a PC (as I had no cell phone).

Is there a statute of limitations for charging this driver? And what would be the specific HTA infraction?

And just to show how serious I take this, he's an exact example in BC, of what happened to me, except the driver ending up killing the person he "tried to scare":
http://www.timescolonist.com/news/Arrog ... story.html


Top
 Profile  
 
Re: What to do if you witness an HTA infraction
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 3:02 pm 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2008 7:21 am
Posts: 2933
Location: In YOUR rearview mirror!
G35Dalf wrote:
hwybear wrote:
- did you see the officer stop the vehicle, thus being the person driving at that time is now identified

2. I don't understand this question since no officer actually stopped him - he got away from me (by blowing a red light) before I could find or attract a PC (as I had no cell phone).


The problem if you lost sight of the vehicle, prior to police stopping the person, how does one prove that is one and the same driver that committed the offence that you are going to be a witness to.

It does not matter what offence you witness...stop sign, stop light, unsafe lane change, use of cellphone etc... offences can be laid, if there is a witness willing to testify, should the person challenge the ticket.

_________________
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca


Top
 Profile  
 
Re: What to do if you witness an HTA infraction
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:42 pm 
Offline
Jr. Member

Joined: Sun May 29, 2011 9:35 pm
Posts: 50
hwybear wrote:
G35Dalf wrote:
hwybear wrote:
- did you see the officer stop the vehicle, thus being the person driving at that time is now identified

2. I don't understand this question since no officer actually stopped him - he got away from me (by blowing a red light) before I could find or attract a PC (as I had no cell phone).


The problem if you lost sight of the vehicle, prior to police stopping the person, how does one prove that is one and the same driver that committed the offence that you are going to be a witness to.

It does not matter what offence you witness...stop sign, stop light, unsafe lane change, use of cellphone etc... offences can be laid, if there is a witness willing to testify, should the person challenge the ticket.


Ah, gottcha. No, I never lost sight of him but this is now moot, since it's in the past. If I were to call police now, is there a time limit to when a charge could be laid and what HTA infraction occurred in this instance?

Thank you for the info, btw.


Top
 Profile  
 
Re: What to do if you witness an HTA infraction
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 6:55 pm 
Offline
Jr. Member

Joined: Sun May 29, 2011 9:35 pm
Posts: 50
Actually, after rethinking this, once I stopped following him and then if I had called the police, what would stop him from stating exactly that - "he wasn't the person driving at that time"? Thus, unless I had continued to follow him and managed to attract a PC, I could only then claim that he was the actual driver that cut me off, in a deliberate and very dangerous manner... so what recourse is there really?


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Related topics
 Topics   Author   Replies   Views   Last post 
There are no new unread posts for this topic. Witness Statement , No Witness at Trial.

avergejoe

7

1571

Thu Oct 15, 2015 6:28 pm

jsherk View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Witness on ticket... no witness

Keegan

0

483

Mon Jun 24, 2013 7:33 pm

Keegan View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Location of infraction inaccurate

Hensta

4

587

Thu Feb 09, 2012 5:35 pm

Hensta View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Seat Belt Infraction

[ Go to pageGo to page: 1, 2 ]

ajchatel

15

3491

Tue Oct 02, 2012 5:52 pm

ajchatel View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Red light infraction

tog896

2

596

Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:14 pm

tog896 View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Wrong Infraction Number

lordvader

2

675

Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:37 pm

iFly55 View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Bylaw infraction - demerit points?

RunningAmok

2

2318

Sat May 08, 2010 9:15 pm

scratchproof View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Parking Infraction Notice - Form 13

jsherk

1

395

Fri Sep 11, 2015 11:32 am

jsherk View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. FATAL ERROR - WRONG INFRACTION LOCATION

unitedredz82

1

802

Sun Feb 26, 2012 5:27 pm

hwybear View the latest post

This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies. Witness

myticket

1

511

Sat Nov 21, 2009 5:48 am

hwybear View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Summons to Witness

dg21208

7

14574

Sun Jan 23, 2011 10:24 am

dg21208 View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. What is the strength of a witness?

ryan1524

3

464

Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:09 pm

ryan1524 View the latest post

 


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Web Development & Search Engine Optimization
Home | Court Listings | Ontario Traffic Ticket

Copyright 2007 - 2017 © Microtekblue Inc. Web Development & Search Engine Optimization Service. We Support phpBB All Rights Reserved.