I've never been in an accident before and I'm unsure how to proceed at this point ÃƒÂ¢Ã‚â‚¬Ã‚â€œ any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Last night around 11:30pm, I was turning off a major street onto a residential street to stop at a gas station. I turned right onto the side street, then paused before starting to turn left into the station. As I began to turn, somebody came around the corner at a very high rate of speed, tried to drive around my turning car, and our cars clipped each other. I checked my mirrors before I began turning, which speaks to how fast this guy was coming around this blind corner.
We stopped and both got out and I expected him to apologize, but instead he immediately launched into, "Don't you check your mirrors? This is a brand new car!"
There was no damage to my vehicle, aside from some rubber left on my bumper, and I couldn't see any real damage to his either ÃƒÂ¢Ã‚â‚¬Ã‚â€œ simply that the built-up dirt on his door had been rubbed away by my wheel. He was insistent that there was damage, that it was my fault, and that I needed to pay for it. I asked if we could clean the dirt off his door to see if there was any actual damage, but he refused.
We ended up exchanging numbers, drivers license information and insurance information. We both took a number of pictures of both cars. The whole time I was in a daze. He said he would visit a body shop and call me. We did not call the police ÃƒÂ¢Ã‚â‚¬Ã‚â€œ I could see no damage to either car ÃƒÂ¢Ã‚â‚¬Ã‚â€œ but I am unsure if this was a mistake, in retrospect.
One complicating factor is that the vehicle I was driving (an older model minivan) belongs to my partner's parents. I should note: it is insured and I'm also insured, however we don't own a vehicle as we live in the city and commute for work, so I'm insured through my family's insurance.
So at this point I'm unsure what to do. I don't believe I'm at fault, and I'm certainly not interested in paying for some phantom repairs to this guy's car. My expectation is that the invisible damage will turn into a $900 body shop estimate, at which point it might be in my best interest to suggest he put it through his insurance. I'm unsure if there will be significant repercussions to that for me. I'm also unsure whether I should contact the police at this point, and whether there is some risk in doing that.
I would love any thoughts that people have. I'm still pretty shaken up and can't get this out of my mind.
You turned left into incoming traffic. You are at fault.Onith wrote:I don't believe I'm at fault
Worst comes to worst he would bring it to court, you can argue there were no visible damage to his car and he was speeding. You can also mention he refused cleaning dirt of his door to access damage.
Don't think he can manage to get you to pay. Good thing there's not much damage in your car because you probably can't get him to pay either.
The driver can make his way to any Collision Reporting Centre and file out a report. An officer will be there to file your report and take pictures. Officers don't report to these type of accidents.kend7510 wrote:So there were no witness and no collision report? I think you'll be fine.
You can't prove he was speeding. If worse comes to worst, they will contact their insurance and they will do the rest.kend7510 wrote:Worst comes to worst he would bring it to court, you can argue there were no visible damage to his car and he was speeding.
I would refuse also. Wiping off dirt in that fashion will scratch your paint. Also, you are not a mechanic nor a body shop. I've had people leave their license plate imprint in my vehicle and say "oh, there's nothing there". There's no convincing these people there's damage. Unless the panel is cracked, they see nothing. They took pictures and that's that. They will show where the impact was and it will match the damage once the car is clean.kend7510 wrote:You can also mention he refused cleaning dirt of his door to access damage.
The Fault Determination Rules place the OP at fault. If anyone wanted to try as you suggested, my response is: Good luck with that. Just because another vehicle was, in your personal opinion, exceeding the posted speed limit does not in any way, shape, or form, place them at fault when you turn left in front of them. They will counter with:kend7510 wrote:Worst comes to worst he would bring it to court, you can argue there were no visible damage to his car and he was speeding.
1. Did you measure the other driver's speed with a radar or other device used to measure speed?
2. Have you received proper training in the visual estimation of vehicle speeds?
3. Did a collision reconstruction expert, based upon examination of the scene/vehicles, determine that the other vehicle was speeding?
4. Even if the vehicle was speeding, did the collision expert determine that the oncoming vehicle was travelling at such an excessive speed for the conditions that a reasonable and prudent driver could not have detected him in such time as to have not made the turn?
Point #4 is the big one. Going 70 in a 60 zone doesn't automatically place you at fault just because you were involved in a crash, and even still, there has to be evidence, not just someone walking in to court and going "oh yeah, buddy there was speeding." Almost everyone who turns left and gets hit by an oncoming car claims the oncoming driver was speeding. It doesn't work.
* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca
http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca
Reading this it's unclear to me whether the OP meant that the other car was travelling in the oncoming lane (as everyone else has assumed), or if the other car had come up from behind and tried to overtake the OP's car on the left. To me it reads a bit more like the latter scenario, which might changes things quite a bit.Onith wrote:...Last night around 11:30pm, I was turning off a major street onto a residential street to stop at a gas station. I turned right onto the side street, then paused before starting to turn left into the station. As I began to turn, somebody came around the corner at a very high rate of speed, tried to drive around my turning car, and our cars clipped each other. I checked my mirrors before I began turning, which speaks to how fast this guy was coming around this blind corner....
Doesn't get much better for the OP, under the fault determination rules a vehicle making a left into a driveway etc that is overtaken on the drivers side by another vehicle travelling the same direction, causing a collision, is a 50/50 split.
http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/regs/e ... 0668_e.htm
Check section 10(6)
Not sure why it's a 50/50, but it's pretty black and white. Still better than the 100% the OP was looking at in the first interpretation of his post, but small consolation (Does make it less likely the other party will scam for repairs as he's on the hook for half the costs AND half his deductable - although I'd bet a weeks coffee money that both parties think the other is at fault, and this ends up in the hands of the insurance companies).
I've read this a couple more times and I believe you may be right.CliffClaven wrote: Reading this it's unclear to me whether the OP meant that the other car was travelling in the oncoming lane (as everyone else has assumed), or if the other car had come up from behind and tried to overtake the OP's car on the left. To me it reads a bit more like the latter scenario, which might changes things quite a bit.
Seems weird the other driver would attempt to pass to the left of a left turning vehicle. I mean the opposite lane would have to be completely empty to even attempt this and even then, the empty lane would allow for the left turn anyways. Sounds like the other driver might have been under the impression that the OP had pulled over (maybe was all the way to the right, or was stopped without any signals) and then pulled out in front of him without waiting. Probably explains why he was upset and asked about checking mirrors.
This probably explains why it's 50/50. Two different versions of events from the drivers putting each other 100% at fault. You can't prove otherwise unless there was already a car waiting behind the turning vehicle.