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Ontario Highway Traffic Act

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Shady business at court lately
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 5:43 pm 
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Hi first post on these boards but i've been reading them for a while now. Anyways a little about myself. Im 29 years old and live in downtown Toronto and im currently trying to start my own traffic ticket service business.

I used to be a delivery driver in Toronto for the last 8 years. I also drove a souped up v8 mustang for a good chunk of those. Needless to say i've gotten A LOT of tickets. By a lot, i mean like over 50 in my life so far. But guess how many points I have on my license? 0.

Ive learned the system so well now that's why I'm trying to start my own defense agency. Because I can do anything these high priced traffic guys can do. For a reasonable price. Anyways enough of the shameless plug, I'm going to get to my story of the shady business.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Anyways I was at court about a week and a half ago at Old City Hall in Toronto (60 Queen St. W). I was fighting another ticket I received. This time it was for running a red light. (which i did not do!, cops a liar). So i go to the court room.

I sign in with the prosecutor who is sitting behind a table outside the court room. She then asks me what I would like to do about my ticket. From my experience I figure the best thing to do if you dont have a defence is hope the cops not there. If the cop is there I take a resolution of a lessor fine which is in most cases no points.

I tell the prosecutor I would like to resolve the ticket today and she offers a lessor fine of fail to obey yellow light or something. I wasnt really listening because I knew the officer who gave me the ticket wasnt there. I thought i was home free.

So It comes time for me to go up to the front of the court room. The prosecutor tells the judge that I had agreed to a resolution to plead guilty to a lessor fine. The thing is in all my experience if the cop isnt there they dont even continue. They just throw out the ticket. But in this case they continued.

The judge asks me how I plea to the lessor charge. So I say "Your worship, before I answer that question can I ask you a question?" He tells me that "now is not really the time to be asking questions. I tell him "well sir this pretains to the answer im about to give". The judge reluctantly allows me to ask the question.

So I ask. "Your worship, I've been in this situation many times before. It is my understanding that if the officer who issued the ticket is not present the ticket is supposed to be thrown out on lack of evidence." The judge agrees with me. (Lots of thumbs up in the court room at this point for me :) )

The judge turns to the prosecutor and says to her. "Well is the officer here??" She tells him she just saw him and that she told him that he could leave since supposedly I agreed to a resolution outside in the hallway before.

The judge then asks me if this is true. I tell the judge that "I wasnt agreeing to a resolution, I was just weighing my options". So the prosecutor gets all hissy and says that since the cop isnt here anymore its not fair that I should just get off and that they should reschedule.

Anyways to make a long story short the judge sided with me and the court room cheered :) I heard other people in the pews mumbling to eachother about their cops not being there and why are they still getting tickets.

This was the first time I've ever seen prosecutors trying to get convictions when the ticket writing officer isnt there. All i got to say is, is this legal???? Even if it is, its damn shady.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 7:46 pm 
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Legal? Probably. Fair/shady? Well... that's debatable.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:12 pm 
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Radar Identified wrote:
Legal? Probably. Fair/shady? Well... that's debatable.


Well in some cases, if you agree to a lesser plea, then the Crown will tell the officer that he/she does not need to show up, and they will agree to amend the charge and you plead guilty. I think you're pretty lucky the JP agreed to let this one go, and not adjourn to a later date when the cop could be available...

Unless the cop was actually supposed to show up that day and didn't for some reason....

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2009 11:06 pm 
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If you are gonna start a business like that your "word" will have to stand for something.

The cop just wanted to come in for his over-time the DA wanted the simple plea with lower price.That is why your name was called at that time.
You messed them up.

If you live in the area of where you got the ticket expect more!!!

It is legal to do that but remember if you are in the court a lot you will be remembered.

Having said that

Salude!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I almost tried it last time. lol

serious again: If you are gonna start that business don't mess them up to many times in a row.

Cheers
Viper1

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 1:52 am 
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Funny thing is a even a couple cops clapped for me or gave me the wink and the gun :) I think the reason was that they figured why did they have to sit through the whole court date when the officer that charged me thought he didnt have to show up and still get convictions.

The best part of all this is that the cop complete when he gave me the ticket. I was driving my delivery van, obviously working. I stopped to let a TTC bus in front of me at the intersection that caused the light to turn red while i was in the middle of the intersection cuz it was going slow.

It wasnt like I blew a red light or anything. Just a little punk rookie cop trying to get his brownie points. I told you punk that I would beat this ticket and you laughed at me. Good game fool.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 4:56 pm 
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Welcome to the forum!
And cudos to you for beating the charge!

However, I hope you know that you need to complete a 2-year diploma program and then do 1 year of court duties before you can become a professional paralegal (ie charge people money for your paralegal services)...

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 9:34 pm 
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viper1 wrote:
DA wanted the simple plea with lower price.


Must have missed the post when we crossed into the USA :wink:

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2009 9:53 pm 
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Shady things....I see lots of them....not on the prosecutors part either!!

Shady things I see:
- I show up and then the person asks for an adjournment
- person does not show, gets convicted then get a re-opening
- person speaks fine (easily understands and speaks fluently) at road side, now plays the need an interpreter thing to get an adjournment - Crown releases me and then the person changes their mind on the resolution, so I`m called back to court

Every trial notice I get takes me off the road to complete a brief which includes disclosure and is sent to the courts.

Good thing our court has is a sign in sheet, allows the defendants to see which officers are there, plus allows officers to see if the defendants are there.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 11:28 am 
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hwybear wrote:
Shady things....I see lots of them....not on the prosecutors part either!!

Shady things I see:
- I show up and then the person asks for an adjournment
- person does not show, gets convicted then get a re-opening
- person speaks fine (easily understands and speaks fluently) at road side, now plays the need an interpreter thing to get an adjournment - Crown releases me and then the person changes their mind on the resolution, so I`m called back to court

Every trial notice I get takes me off the road to complete a brief which includes disclosure and is sent to the courts.

Good thing our court has is a sign in sheet, allows the defendants to see which officers are there, plus allows officers to see if the defendants are there.


Hahaha. I take it youre a police officer?? Youre right its very easy for people to do all the things you mentioned. I also agree that it would be probably quite annoying for an officer. But what you also have to remember is that when you write someone a ticket youre doing something quite annoying to them.

Ive personally received over 50 tickets for speeding mostly in Toronto because I drove for a living in the city for 9 hours a day 5 days a week fore 9 years, always on a tight schedule. Finding every speed trap in the city on the way. Ive never had an accident in my life nor even anything you could really call a close call. But I know people who have never gotten a ticket but have had 3 or more accidents and written off a few cars.

I have no beefs with you punishing people who are a real danger on the road to the fullest extent of the law. But these speed traps you guys set up in areas where speed limits make sudden drops and things of that nature are all really a sneaky way to make the gov some $$$. That kind of stuff doesnt keep our roads safe AT ALL. If anything it makes it more dangerous with all the people slaming on their breaks.

I find it annoying when I get tickets like this so I find no problem re-opening the case and ajourning as many times as I have to beat the charge. You have to realize that youre costing people a big chunk of change and repercussions of insurance hikes and what not.

Its the type of drivers that I see that all seem to have clean drivers records, never get tickets, but cant drive worth *EDIT*. The type of drivers that drive ultra slow in the fast lane. People who speed match, who drive really slow side by side on a 2 lane 1 way road, blocking all the traffic behind. People who slam their breaks on for yellow lights when theirs cars 10 feet behind them. People who change lanes without looking or pull into traffic without looking. These are a few examples of real dangerous drivers of the road.

If youre ticketing these kind of drivers then I have all the sympathy in the world for you if they are abusing the system. But when you give out tickets to people like me (not saying you personally obviously), in set up speed traps and other silly cash grab stunts, Ive got none for ya.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 12:44 pm 
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cenanuff wrote:
But what you also have to remember is that when you write someone a ticket youre doing something quite annoying to them..


Very easy solution to prevent that annoying ticket.....simply pay attention and read the signs and will never ever be stopped aside from the odd RIDE program.

Something as the "alledged" speed traps in zone changes.....I see the sign I slow down. Incidently, if one is travelling at the proper speed, release the gas at the "x" speed ahead, time they reach the "x" km/hr begins the vehicle will have naturally slowed to the proper speed.

People complain about a ticket fine, insurance etc......which is ALL avoidable, but won't bat an eye at paying $300 for a 3hr NHL game seat, or $100 mth for a cell they don't really need or even gas per litre...etc..

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 8:59 pm 
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Hey have you gotten out of alot of 50 over tickets aswell?

Isnt a 50 over ticket mandatory court date aswelll?

Officers say they don't like court but they get time + 1/2 on off days to go court which is a minimum of 3 hours paid. They arent doing that bad. The officer doesnt have to show up. Sometimes officers wont go and peolpe dont get the ticket cause he didnt show up.

But im not sure on the 50 over tickets... and not sure but i am sure officers get paid time to go to court regardless.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 9:18 pm 
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tdrive2 wrote:
Officers say they don't like court but they get time + 1/2 on off days to go court which is a minimum of 3 hours paid..

Min 6hrs pay :wink:

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 2:07 pm 
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tdrive2 wrote:
Hey have you gotten out of alot of 50 over tickets aswell?

Isnt a 50 over ticket mandatory court date aswelll?

Officers say they don't like court but they get time + 1/2 on off days to go court which is a minimum of 3 hours paid. They arent doing that bad. The officer doesnt have to show up. Sometimes officers wont go and peolpe dont get the ticket cause he didnt show up.

But im not sure on the 50 over tickets... and not sure but i am sure officers get paid time to go to court regardless.


No ive never been charged with 50kmh over before. I mean Ive gone 250km/h in my mustang before on the back roads before but I would never do it on the 400 series highways and such. Not because I think I would crash or something just because of the police presence and the idiot driver presence.

I would like to say that I think that 50 over law is a terrible law though. No police officer should be able to take your car away from you without your day in court. A police officer is not a judge. Its just another step towards a police state.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 2:30 pm 
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Quote:
I mean Ive gone 250km/h in my mustang before on the back roads before


and this was well more then 6 months ago.............. :shock:

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 8:19 pm 
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Reflections wrote:
Quote:
I mean Ive gone 250km/h in my mustang before on the back roads before


and this was well more then 6 months ago.............. :shock:


I think the new law has been around longer then 6 months hasnt it?


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