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Ontario Highway Traffic Act

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:28 pm 
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Is it just me or do people seem to drive extremely fast on the 400. I read an article by Jim Kenzie saying he has seen people fly by over 150 and not get stopped and it seemed they were looking for ones going 70 over.

I guess some of these parts have 5 lanes and south of barrie people seem to fly on this thing. Is it just me or are some people on here going well over 150. Most of the highways now i see people go fast but they dont cross 150. Why do people go so fast on the 400 is it less enforcement? Isnt that where they use the plane to catch speeders?


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:33 pm 
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400, 11 and hwy 9 have painted markers on the side and median for stop watch timing.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:29 pm 
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People do drive extremely fast on the 400. When I hear people complain of crazy driving on the 401, I usually say: "Yeah, it's a little challenging... but if you think that's bad, try the 400." Wide road, long commutes, and a higher police tolerance for speeds. If they stop and tow the guy going 150 they'll miss the guy going 180+.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 6:00 pm 
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I drove the 401 yesterday from Toronto to Kitchener and back

I've generally had the same driving behavior for decades - "try" to keep her under 120 (115 is the target....thinking I'll not get dinged)....stay right except to pass

Not gonna pretend I've never legged a car out on a deserted stretch, or been a left-lane bandit in a rush....but "generally" it's under 120...and stay right

I found it was difficult to keep up with the flow yesterday while trying to keep her under 120, and I never even got into the far left lane

ironically, on the way out traffic was light and the flow awesome (115-130), not a hint of trouble whatsoever......until.....I got near Kitchener and 2 OPP cruisers were pulling folks over....and that's when everything got really dangerous

here I am in the far right lane doing probably 115.....and because there's a cruiser on the shoulder with a speeding victim...it's the law to slow down and move over to the left....and I gotta tell ya, that created some real hairy conditions

I would love to see the MTO do a test and have a legislated stretch of the 401 banned from being patrolled....and let's see how many people crash and get killed

cause IMO...the Police presense yesterday made that one section very dangerous....people took their eyes off the road looking at their speedos....were hitting the brakes....changing lanes etc.....it damn near created an accident


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 8:03 pm 
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PetitionGuy wrote:
I
I would love to see the MTO do a test and have a legislated stretch of the 401 banned from being patrolled....and let's see how many people crash and get killed

cause IMO...the Police presense yesterday made that one section very dangerous....people took their eyes off the road looking at their speedos....were hitting the brakes....changing lanes etc.....it damn near created an accident


I'll go for that provided that the everyone involved in a collision is immediately suspended for driving for 1 year OR a driver running off the road is suspended from driving for 6 months No appeals to be granted.

Do you know why the police were there? I think not. Many reasons to be on the hwy parked behind vehicles.......but never would want to lay blame on those "rubber neckers" or other poor driving.

We seriously need good driver training and all this would be avoided. How many people on a two lane area in town sees a vehicle in front start to signal and instead of merging with the other lane come to a complete stop. How many improper turns do you see each time on the road? How many people did not get the "signal light" option put on their vehicle? All this stuff and many others factors affect fluid movement of traffic.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 15, 2009 11:55 pm 
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I have to agree with bear here. We should make driver training part of high school. Take the current structure, add a year and put in 1 full year of driver training. Not just how to park either, skid control, emergency stopping...the whole shooting match.....what do ya think

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 1:15 am 
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But they just made the school shorter by a year lol... 13 years in primary school? Give kids a break! Just make "Driving" a required credit, just like civics, except they will likely benefit more from a driving course...

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 9:15 am 
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hwybear wrote:


Do you know why the police were there? I think not. Many reasons to be on the hwy parked behind vehicles.......but never would want to lay blame on those "rubber neckers" or other poor driving.


well....I passed one marked cruiser first....he was just idliing on the shoulder....then about a km down the road there was another marked cruiser with his cherries lit and had a civilian car pulled over

so I'm assuming they were out there hunting for speeders

and the law the OPP have been promoting of late (slow down and move to the left or face huge fines and points) only appeared to be known by myself and one other vehicle in the pack of 20+ cars within the same vicinity......so when I started braking/signalling and looking for a spot to move left....I was gonna become a pilon real quick because the other 18 ish cars were kinda oblivious to either the law, the surroundings or both....but you could tell that everyone saw the cheeries and were reacting

I find the reactions of traffic on controlled access highways very common to the nascar boys on the superspeedways....when one in the pack begins to make an evasive manouver....it causes a chain reaction...and that's when it gets dangerous....

imo.....on that particular stretch the shoulders were so wide that the cruiser was way outta the way of the far right lane and simply easing off the gas or lightly applying the brakes would be sufficient....but with Fantino continually promoting his bone-crushing punishments for drivers doing anything wrong, I felt that making an obvious avoidment of that right lane while slowing would be the proper move in the eyes of the law, even though it was bloody dangerous for me and the cars around me

it's a no win situation really....I just find the irony kinda funny

and FWIW....I never saw what I would consider a bonehead driver the entire way.....as I said....the traffic flow was moving along great....the odd left-laner in a rush....the odd transport truck staying in the middle lane, but nothing dramatic......until we saw the cheeries


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 12:02 pm 
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Sure you can school and tell people and make new laws. But they won't listen. They wont care. They wont take it serious. So how do we deal with those left lane drivers who cause traffic jam's and cause road rage in other drivers. Well here they don't care they just clog traffic.

I have seen tons of people do this. One time i watched an F150 going over 150 race right behind the guy. Scared the *EDIT* out of him.

This is how people in Poland and Germany drive. They know either move out of the way, or your life will be at risk. People on the autobahn no this. They also know if you pull into the left lane you better not inconvenience other drivers. They also no its only a few seconds you better pay attention or youll have people up behind you at double your speed that could crash into the back of your car.

This will get people to follow a law.

Also drivers know at higher speeds that they must pay attention. When im on the highway usually the ones driving fast arent talking to their wife, checking their emails on the their blackberry, or on the cell phone. Infact usually the fast drivers are there with 2 hands on the wheel with their eyes wide open flashing their high beams in your rear view mirror.

Driving school fails to, people don't listen. It gives a false sense of security, just like speed limits, seat belts, police, and air bags. They wont save you they can only help. I read something a while back that showed those who went to driving school had a higher chance of being in an accident within their first year of driving.

Infact i used to be bad at some of the things i criticzed. I also inconvenience other drivers. I remember my second time on the highway. I sat in the far left lane going 10 over the speed limit. I though to myself. Im doing the speed limit why move.

About 10 minutes later everyone was cutting me off racing around me. In fact i almost died when i had an SUV going way faster barely even see me as i ignorantly passed in front of him.

I didnt remember rules of the road or what i was taught. But i knew that if i continued this kind of behavior i would endanger myself or others. So i taught myself to move right to allow others to pass. If only others could come to this realization we would have so much less tailgating, multi car pile ups, passing on the right, swerving lanes, and cutting others off.

Infact this is another reason why people never follow the speed limit. People drive on the 3 lane concrete highways. They know the officer cant park in the middle. There is no room. They also know that everyone else is speeding. They know 100 is to slow. So they don't care they drive faster, so is everyone else. They also know most cops look for those over 120. They know its to low, so do most officers. The fact that so many are charged with 50 over also shows this. These are only the ones that are unlucky enough to get caught. People drive well over 100 on our highways everyday. The police might not ticket them, and they might not even see them. But they live to tell the tale.

I wonder if those who make our laws ever thought about any of these things just a few. Maybee they should take a drive from Barrie to Toronto on the 400 South and open their eyes.

The fact that almost no one drives the speed limit should say something. Any time in or near Toronto when the traffic is light almost everyone is going 120-130. Then they are those in the left lane going 130 and up. The officers know this to. They look for the ones who go more than 150. They also know that 150 and over is a mandatory court date which they attend. They know if they catch those going 130 they will miss the ones going 160.

Infact another OPP officer must have noticed this last week when he pulled over a fellow officer for going 165. People are never going to drive 100. They know they're cars dont consume that much more gas, they also know they wont die, and they are pretty sure they wont get a ticket. They also know their cars have gotten alot safer and if they more than 100 they probally won't die.

Here is my question. How come 120-130 seems to be fine. Infact officers have pulled people over and said to stay at 120. But if 120-130 is fine how come 140 isnt.

Also if 120 is fine and seems to be the limit officers enforce at how come if you go 150 the ticket is for 50 over and not 30 over? This is a huge problem with this law. 150 km/h is not street racing.

Your average driver in a stock 4 cylinder Honda Civic with a 1.8 or 2 Litre engine and cheap all season tires also know thats 150 is not street racing. Infact he can comfortably travel near this speed. Maybee the 50 over law would mean something if they speed limit was say 130-120. That means you would get a ticket for going 170-180. This is more likely to be street racing. To travel at speeds like this you require something more than 4 cylinders and R rated tires and alot more fuel.

Even if you call 170 or 180 street racing the officer has no right to be the Judge, jury and executioner at the side of the road and on top of this to charge someone with the right to a fair trial....... Long post but i am tired of this old argument. In fact every time i drive on a 400 series highway on off peak times i wonder why the limit was ever 100 km/h?

I may add to this the only time i see anyone do 100 km/h seems to be in 4 situations. Traffic, Accelerating, Decelerating or with their 4 ways on. Usually anything on 2,4,6 14, 16, or 18 wheels is going more than 100.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 12:05 pm 
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PetitionGuy wrote:
well....I passed one marked cruiser first....he was just idliing on the shoulder....then about a km down the road there was another marked cruiser with his cherries lit and had a civilian car pulled overs


first one could have been finishing notes OR waiting for someone that called in an aggressive driver etc.....2nd one could even be a disabled vehicle and giving assistance

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 2:25 pm 
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He has a point just because he is on the shoulder does not mean they are checking for speeders. OPP have many different duties. Not all there tickets are for speeding and there is no qouta.

All though there is extra pay for court days and they get over time pay for doing it on "off days" or off shift. Thats my problem also with 172, 172 is mandatory court date. Every ticket an officer gives for 150 + is a day in court with extra pay.

Aside police do look for different things besides speeders. I usually find in the GTA the cops are looking for speeding using their Genesis 2. The highways are so compact and space is so tight they're usually isnt enough room to safely sit under an overpass or on the shoulder. The cars are all so packed together and the volume is so packed its hard to do. Mind you in the GTA i am sure officers spend alot of time at scenes of accidents and construction.

Althought i see alot more speed enforcement on off peak times etc during the day. At night with almost no traffic i see very little.

Again he could have been on the shoulder for many reasons. One might have been speed enforcement, he could have been looking for a particular car or truck, he could have been doing paper work, maybee he was looking for in correct lane changes or tail gating..... It is not always speed enforcement.

I think the alot of people do not like our low speed limits and have a bad impression that all cops give speeding tickets and their is qoutas they must fill. This i think may be a reason people hate cops giving speeding tickets. But they're is no "qouta".

Mind you though like any government agency they get a budget at the end of the year. Unfortunately they need numbers to get a budget. Speeding tickets are an easy way to get some numbers for next years budget. I guess you could say theyre is no official qouta but unofficially i am sure they must generate some revenue or catch speeders or they wont have a way to justify a budget.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 3:15 pm 
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tdrive2 wrote:
This is how people in Poland and Germany drive. They know either move out of the way, or your life will be at risk. People on the autobahn no this. They also know if you pull into the left lane you better not inconvenience other drivers. They also no its only a few seconds you better pay attention or youll have people up behind you at double your speed that could crash into the back of your car.


Your life is absolutely not at risk because you move into the passing lane on the Autobahn. You complete your pass and move right at the first reasonable opportunity, unlike here where they'll stay in the left lane for 40 miles and not make any effort to clear the way. Faster-moving drivers in Germany will also give you a reasonable opportunity to complete your pass in safety, unlike here where they'll try to get around you on the right even when there's no room.

I've driven enough on the Autobahn and the Germans do not drive crazy, out-of-control speeds where they are unable to react to hazards, or even react to normal traffic on the road. They must be able to stop their vehicle within line of sight, and while they tend to drive fast, it's not double the speed of other vehicles. If a driver is going too fast, even on parts where there is no speed limit, they will be pulled over by the Polizei. There are plenty of signs on the Autobahn in gas stations with a very stern-looking German Polizei officer and the words, roughly translated, saying "WE ARE WATCHING YOU." The Germans are not afraid of being rear-ended or wrecking, they just drive in a manner that keeps the traffic moving and doesn't inconvenience anyone. What a concept. The "high milers" on the Autobahn are normally around 180 km/h, but over 200 km/h is uncommon.

They also have much better driver training, it takes about four years to get a licence, and they take driving as a serious responsibility, unlike here where people don't give a rat's ***. Germany's highway network is safer than ours because they know how to drive on a highway, they pay attention, and they also drive reasonable and appropriate speeds for the conditions, which are well within their capabilities and also enable them to react safely and properly to changing circumstances on the highway.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 4:23 pm 
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tdrive2 wrote:
Thats my problem also with 172, 172 is mandatory court date. Every ticket an officer gives for 150 + is a day in court with extra pay..


Not true either at least in my area. I rarely have court on a day off, this is to prevent OT. I know every time I work during a weekday I will be having court of some kind (traffic or criminal).

If I summons somone to court (ie 172) it is for a first appearance only and I do not have to show up.....if it proceeds farther down the system and a trial is scheduled, it will be on a day shift that I am working.

OPP does not get any direct funding what so ever from the court system, all goes into the Municipality that the ticket is wrote on.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 4:43 pm 
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tdrive2 wrote:
Sure you can school and tell people and make new laws. But they won't listen. They wont care. They wont take it serious.
So they don't care they drive faster, so is everyone else. They also know most cops look for those over 120. They know its to low, so do most officers.


20 over issue......it isn't what you perceive......many of us have a logical, approach to this....and it is NOT that the speed limit is too low. I allow someone to be within 10km of the limit and allow their speedometer to be out by 10km. Once over that in 70km+ zones you are more than fair game! 50-60 zone, only allow 15 over for the similiar tolerance reasons.

130km is a fatal zone line.......people are not developed to with stand sudden stops at those speed. Their organs can not take it and they obtain serious injuries and some often die.

50 over is not "street racing" it is classified as a "stunt".

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 7:29 pm 
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hwybear wrote:
130km is a fatal zone line.......people are not developed to with stand sudden stops at those speed. Their organs can not take it and they obtain serious injuries and some often die..


hence the reason why draconian penalties for the "magic" 150 kph on controlled access highways is a complete wank.....because nobody is face planting at that speed......everyone is going the same direction

intersections are another story....and I'm amazed at the # of 80kph intersections...those are dangerous....much more than 130+ on the 401

BTW.....with the HANS devise, I've seen plenty of race cars PLANT at over 200MPH and the organs are fine as are the drivers....obviously there's a big difference in how folks are strapped in road cars versus race cars, but the body can withstand plenty and this 130 fatal zone is another wank


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