Hi. I have been researching the law when it comes to introducing evidence to court. I have requested disclosure and am making a Charter challenge on the grounds that incomplete disclosure. In my research, I have discovered a book on radar use in North America, it is essentially the radar bible. Now, knowing what I know now since reading this book, I am certain that the officer did not conduct proper procedure when he conducted his stop. My objective is to get his training manual, or his training procedure introduced as relevant evidence that Stintchombe requires. I was going to argue that in light of the information I've learned, can I admit this book as evidence, or the training of the officer? How do I go about doing that? How do I convince a judge that this information is relevant to my case?
Hi. I have been researching the law when it comes to introducing evidence to court. I have requested disclosure and am making a Charter challenge on the grounds that incomplete disclosure. In my research, I have discovered a book on radar use in North America, it is essentially the radar bible. Now, knowing what I know now since reading this book, I am certain that the officer did not conduct proper procedure when he conducted his stop.
My objective is to get his training manual, or his training procedure introduced as relevant evidence that Stintchombe requires. I was going to argue that in light of the information I've learned, can I admit this book as evidence, or the training of the officer? How do I go about doing that? How do I convince a judge that this information is relevant to my case?
You won't get any of that. There have been several court rulings that state that the radar manual, officer's training records, testing procedure, etc., do not have to be disclosed. I've heard that the officer's notes no longer even need to show the time at which he/she did his/her start- and end-of-shift tests; all that's required now is that the officer note that he or she performed the tests. The court will take the officer's testimony that he or she has been trained in the use of the device as sufficient. If you want to cross examine the officer based on what you learned in the book and on what he or she did and how, go ahead. If something sounds "off" in the officer's testimony and you want to challenge him or her on it, knock your socks off. But the prosecutor or JP may object to certain questions as irrelevant in Ontario.
You won't get any of that. There have been several court rulings that state that the radar manual, officer's training records, testing procedure, etc., do not have to be disclosed. I've heard that the officer's notes no longer even need to show the time at which he/she did his/her start- and end-of-shift tests; all that's required now is that the officer note that he or she performed the tests. The court will take the officer's testimony that he or she has been trained in the use of the device as sufficient.
If you want to cross examine the officer based on what you learned in the book and on what he or she did and how, go ahead. If something sounds "off" in the officer's testimony and you want to challenge him or her on it, knock your socks off. But the prosecutor or JP may object to certain questions as irrelevant in Ontario.
What have you actually received for disclosure? You're entitled to a copy of the officer's notes and the testing procedure of the speed measuring device used. A copy of the entire manual cannot be disclosed without a court order as it is a "third party record" (neither owned by the police or the Crown). That would require an O'Connor application (R v O'Connor - Supreme Court Decision). You need to be careful referring to literature from "North America". Speed enforcement requirements vary drastically from the USA to Canada (and even within provinces). In order to submit evidence directly from the book you'd need the author present to testify. You can however, ask the officer in cross examination about certain things you may have gained from reading the book. I wouldn't even bring up the fact that you read a book. What makes you so certain the officer did not conduct "proper procedure" as you referred to?
What have you actually received for disclosure? You're entitled to a copy of the officer's notes and the testing procedure of the speed measuring device used. A copy of the entire manual cannot be disclosed without a court order as it is a "third party record" (neither owned by the police or the Crown). That would require an O'Connor application (R v O'Connor - Supreme Court Decision).
You need to be careful referring to literature from "North America". Speed enforcement requirements vary drastically from the USA to Canada (and even within provinces). In order to submit evidence directly from the book you'd need the author present to testify. You can however, ask the officer in cross examination about certain things you may have gained from reading the book. I wouldn't even bring up the fact that you read a book.
What makes you so certain the officer did not conduct "proper procedure" as you referred to?
I have done the calculations, and there is no way that the officer could have properly conducted procedures in the time span that he had. It was confirmed by the book "The Law on Speeding and Speed Detection Devices Book by A. Shakoor Manraj and Paul Douglas Haines", and I want to be able to get this book introduced as evidence, or barring that, compel the judge to accept my request for the officer's training procedure or the actual trainer as a witness. From the research that I have looked into, by introducing a Charter Challenge on the topic, I'm hoping that, with the addition of case law, the judge will have no choice but to see the probative value of the evidence. Does that make any sense?
I have done the calculations, and there is no way that the officer could have properly conducted procedures in the time span that he had. It was confirmed by the book "The Law on Speeding and Speed Detection Devices
Book by A. Shakoor Manraj and Paul Douglas Haines", and I want to be able to get this book introduced as evidence, or barring that, compel the judge to accept my request for the officer's training procedure or the actual trainer as a witness.
From the research that I have looked into, by introducing a Charter Challenge on the topic, I'm hoping that, with the addition of case law, the judge will have no choice but to see the probative value of the evidence. Does that make any sense?
Disclosure is the responsibility of the prosecutor. The police wont give you the manual. That book is not used in training officers on the use of radar in Ontario. Most officers have probably never even heard of it. Depending on its publication date, it may even be very outdated.
Disclosure is the responsibility of the prosecutor. The police wont give you the manual.
That book is not used in training officers on the use of radar in Ontario. Most officers have probably never even heard of it. Depending on its publication date, it may even be very outdated.
I don't understand? Why wouldn't one just use an O'Connor application and compel the police to hand it over? They simply aren't allowed to use the radar against the recommended use by the manufacturer.
I don't understand? Why wouldn't one just use an O'Connor application and compel the police to hand it over? They simply aren't allowed to use the radar against the recommended use by the manufacturer.
Yes. I did read it. It appears to me as though the manual is still available, it just has to be retrieved from the police. Which is an O'Connor application. I don't see where there is a refusal to make the manual available. It's just seems to be a jumping of more hoops. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Yes. I did read it. It appears to me as though the manual is still available, it just has to be retrieved from the police. Which is an O'Connor application. I don't see where there is a refusal to make the manual available. It's just seems to be a jumping of more hoops. Correct me if I'm wrong.
[34] The position taken by the respondent is that any ruling that results in agents being required to commence an O'Connor application every time the testing procedure is sought would impair access to justice and clog up the courts with needless third party record applications, especially given the fact that the charge of speeding is the most common charge laid by the YRP. This submission disregards the fact that, in this region and others throughout the province, as is apparent from the case law, the disclosure sought is readily available for review at the prosecutor's office. There is no impediment to an accused making full answer and defence. From a practical point of view, an O'Connor application is not needed in this region. If more significant portions of the manual are sought, then it may be appropriate to bring an O'Connor application so that the court can consider the grounds upon which production is sought from the YRP as a third party, and the relevance of the material to an issue at trial. [35] Also from a practical point of view, the YRP is not likely to change its practice of providing a copy of the manual to the prosecutor's office, so as not to be inundated with O'Connor applications solely to obtain the portions pertaining to the testing procedures. I read that as the fact that you get it from the Crown, not the police.
I reveiwed that case. It seems as though the manual is still allowed, you just have to petition the police for it.
[34] The position taken by the respondent is that any ruling that results in agents being required to commence an O'Connor application every time the testing procedure is sought would impair access to justice and clog up the courts with needless third party record applications, especially given the fact that the charge of speeding is the most common charge laid by the YRP. This submission disregards the fact that, in this region and others throughout the province, as is apparent from the case law, the disclosure sought is readily available for review at the prosecutor's office. There is no impediment to an accused making full answer and defence. From a practical point of view, an O'Connor application is not needed in this region. If more significant portions of the manual are sought, then it may be appropriate to bring an O'Connor application so that the court can consider the grounds upon which production is sought from the YRP as a third party, and the relevance of the material to an issue at trial.
[35] Also from a practical point of view, the YRP is not likely to change its practice of providing a copy of the manual to the prosecutor's office, so as not to be inundated with O'Connor applications solely to obtain the portions pertaining to the testing procedures.
I read that as the fact that you get it from the Crown, not the police.
Former Ontario Police Officer. Advice will become less relevant as the time goes by !
Decatur's case law citing doesn't correlate with his/her implication that the manual isn't available. It seems to me that if I, as a new litigant, wanted to use the manual as evidence, I would have no problem getting the manual. The way I read Decatur's message was that the manual would no longer be able to be used in a trial.
Decatur's case law citing doesn't correlate with his/her implication that the manual isn't available. It seems to me that if I, as a new litigant, wanted to use the manual as evidence, I would have no problem getting the manual. The way I read Decatur's message was that the manual would no longer be able to be used in a trial.
I got the operator manual, technical manual, tuning forks certificate, roadside enclosure manual, the photo before and after, technical acceptance certificate, the police training PowerPoint presentation, typewritten police officer's notes, ticket producing procedure. The expert teleconference, leave to have officers testify, judicial notice of radar resource book are going to be decided at trial. I was denied my Section 8 motion.
I got the operator manual, technical manual, tuning forks certificate, roadside enclosure manual, the photo before and after, technical acceptance certificate, the police training PowerPoint presentation, typewritten police officer's notes, ticket producing procedure.
The expert teleconference, leave to have officers testify, judicial notice of radar resource book are going to be decided at trial.
I'm just curious, where was the alleged offence, and what type of speed measuring device was used. Some of the disclosure doesn't make sense for an officer written ticket.
I'm just curious, where was the alleged offence, and what type of speed measuring device was used. Some of the disclosure doesn't make sense for an officer written ticket.
I got the operator manual, technical manual, tuning forks certificate, roadside enclosure manual, the photo before and after, technical acceptance certificate, the police training PowerPoint presentation, typewritten police officer's notes, ticket producing procedure.
The expert teleconference, leave to have officers testify, judicial notice of radar resource book are going to be decided at trial.
I was denied my Section 8 motion.
That's great! What kind of Disclosure Request form did you use!? Do you have a copy?
I used the one I found on here. It was helpful, but what helped the most was having my Notice of Constitutional Question turned into a Charter Challenge by the judge. So then I introduced all my challenges that I obtained from here.
I used the one I found on here. It was helpful, but what helped the most was having my Notice of Constitutional Question turned into a Charter Challenge by the judge. So then I introduced all my challenges that I obtained from here.
I'm just curious, where was the alleged offence, and what type of speed measuring device was used. Some of the disclosure doesn't make sense for an officer written ticket.
I have a problem and not sure what the hell to do about it. Few days ago I was stopped on a street going westbound against blinding afternoon sun following the flow of traffic. I drive a taxi for living in Toronto and have ACZ driver's license. I have a perfect record both for professional as well regular demerit points. I haven't been pulled over as a matter of fact in some 15 years for…
I have recently gone to court for a speeding ticket issued by an OPP officer. As it stood, the officer forgot to sign the ticket. So at my trial, before I made a plea, I pointed this out to the justice of the peace and asked that the ticket be quashed. I was asked to produce my copy of the ticket, which I gave and the JOP then agreed with me and dismissed the case. Before he did so, the…
I got pulled over (along with about 10 other cars) for going through a road closed sign. I had just pulled out of a parking lot pretty much right beside the road closed sign, and with about 4 cars behind me there wasn't much I could do but go through, so I think I have a good chance of fighting it. However, on my ticket under the Signature of issuing Provincial Offences Officer, it's left…
So here's my situation, any advice would be appreciated.
On June 26, 2013 I received a ticket for 25 over in a 60 zone
In early October I received my notice of trial (Feb 25, 2014)
In early January I sent in my request for disclosure
In late January I received a letter to pick up my disclosure, however when I picked up my disclosure it wasn't typed (I had requested it to be) and I needed…
Is there a legal requirement to report an accident to the insurer?
Scenario
- 2 vehicle accident
- each vehicle has less than $1000 damage
- each vehicle has damage roughly equal to insurance deductible
- a police Accident Report was completed
In this scenario the drivers decided to repair their own damages. But are they legally bound to report the accident and damages to the insurer? ...and out of…
I will be representing my wife at her speeding trial next week. Mostly everything is pretty much run of the mill but since she wasn't speeding we will be having her take the stand. Since this opens up the opportunity for the prosecutor to cross examine, I am just wondering if anyone here knows what kind of questions we should expect from the prosecutor in order to best prepare.
i got pulled over by a cop this morning in my kids's school zone for failure to stop at a stop sign. i am thinking of fighting this ticket, but i noticed that on the ticket itself it only says "disobey stop sign - fail to stop" and there is no mention of the demerit points. a co-worker mentioned to me that a ticket should state how many demerit points i am being docked. i know the Highway Traffic…
Alright, so this happened back awhile ago on June and I haven't appeared in Court. However, I would like some inputs and advice before I get into this battle.
Back in June I got a Speeding Ticket claiming I was going 100km/h on Blackcreek going south towards Lawrence. The Speed Limit there is 70km/h.
At this point of time, it was roughly traffic hour around 4-5PM. Coming off of the Highway, and…
Ive already done searches, read the act as best i can but still haven't read a complete answer. Where in the HTA does it state that the front license plate must be attached to the front bumper? I have it on the passenger sun visor (if ppl remember the old temp permits that taped to the pass side of windshield) i figured that this spot would be the same. However now they have got rid of…
My son was returning from school and was just entering the driveway when another vehicle hit the rear end. Police writes a ticket "fail to yield from private drive" 139(i). He is going to fight this ticket and made an application for disclosure. The trial is next week and he still hasn't received the disclosure.
He checked with the court last month and they said that they will call when disclosure…
i was travelling on the 401 (posted speed 100km/h) in the far left lane, when i caught up to a vehicle going ~110km/h. I patiently waited for the vehicle to move over a lane, but they did not. The vehicle behind me moved to the center lane to pass, but because he was a safe distance behind me, i moved into the middle lane ahead of him to pass the slower moving car. When I accelerated, i…
So I was returning from my honeymoon in Montreal, and was cruising down the 401 just inside the Ontario/Quebec border. I was passing one of the Onroute stations and saw an OPP cruiser. I checked my speed and I was doing 120. A few kilometers up the road the cruiser pulled me over and told me I was clocked doing 132 by the aircraft. I was a little surprised to see the ticket was for the full…
I made a right turn during prohibited hours (7am-6pm) in Toronto. I was ticketed by a COP who was specially watching for that trap.
After I've received the ticket HTA144(9), I discovered one of the seven digits of my license plate was incorrectly written on my ticket. I was thinking about to make a First Attendance at the court office to see the prosecutor for a reduced charge...any advice or…
Have been busy and haven't had much time to follow up on this...
Went to court having not received disclosure (and was not organized enough to apply for a stay), so the trial was adjourned. They photocopied the officer's ticket and notes and provided a log sheet from the plane. I've sent another request for the rest of the disclosure items.
So here's my question -- can an officer amend the ticket…
I am not sure if my case is really a case of " mis-use parking permit" and need some advises on whether i should fight the ticket. Here is what happened:
During the labor day long weekend, I took my parents to diner at a local shopping mall. (my father's hip was broken in 2016 and he's been on wheelchair since, the permit is in his name and I been using the permit to help him for doctor's…
I have a court date coming up where I need to subpoena one of the officers that was present when I got my ticket. The issuing officer didn't include the fact that the second one was present at the time in his report (disclosure) but did give me the second officers name and badge number after the judge told him to do it.
What I'm looking for help with is the process of me getting to…
I got pulled over on a 4 lane section fo Highway 7... Thank god I didn't get a stay at home ticket as well or my car impounded.
Officer clocked me at 156 km/h he decided not to impound my car and give me a 149 km/h since it was my first offence and he said I was polite and respectful. I would give this officer a 5/5 review if I could, very polite and respectful.
Long story short, I was driving from Toronto to Ottawa and around Napanee with my friend in two separated cars, the officer was parked on uturn. He followed us turn his light on and got between us and pulled us over, he told me that i was running at 152 km/h without showing me his LISAR. they suspended my and my friends license and impounded the two cars for 7 days. This was a Friday in January…
I'm unsure on what to do here. I was under the impression that I could request a stay on the day of trial because disclosure was not given to me in an adequate time. I requested disclosure 2x by fax, 5 months ago.
I read on ticketcombat that I had to file a motion 15 days prior to the trial to request a stay of proceedings.
Does anyone else get blinded by fog lights on rural roads? I don't seem to have a problem with them on lighted streets, but the badly aimed fog lights or ones with a poor cutoff really get to me when driving the Escort. I just came back from a 20-minute drive, and every single pickup truck had fog lights on, and forced me to focus on the bottom right of the road. My windshield is clean and…