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Ontario Highway Traffic Act

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No Insurance Accident, Please Advise
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 4:30 am 
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I am 37 years old and I got on an accident two days ago with no insurance.

I was driving home from work, another driver was turning left onto a hwy ramp. He attempted to make the turn, but when he saw me coming he changed his mind and stopped quarter way on my lane, I guess I could've made it, but I panicked and slammed on the brakes and hit him. His car got damaged but it looked fixable, my car looks toasted.

I live with my common-law partner, we have two vehicles, both of the vehicles on her name, one fully insured, the other one is not insured. We bought the vehicle that's insured after, and after the purchase, we stopped the insurance on the second vehicle, and I signed a driver exclusion form due to my driving record. I was planning to add myself on the policy once my driving record got better. I only drove the second car to work and back.

After the accident, police didn't show up after we called them, they asked if there were injuries, and since there weren't any, they said to call the reporting center, which we did, they sent tow trucks, picked up our cars and us. We both gave our side of the story, I believe he's at fault, but it's decided by insurance apparently.

When they asked for insurance, I gave them the pink slip that I had from before we bought the other car, which was expired a month ago, and told them that I forgot to put the new slip on the car. She didn't make a big deal out of it, and on the report it shows the policy number which is basically the same policy number as the insured vehicle. I was able to renew the stickers on the uninsured vehicle online at the MTO website using the policy number.

I regret not putting it on the policy before and driving without insurance, but I've collected a few speeding tickets, and one cell phone ticket that made the insurance skyrocket. I was working for a company that required a lot of driving. I was putting close to 6 thousand km a month on average, and it's no excuse, but I just got unlucky I guess. The cell phone charge was when I was stopped at the red light, again no excuse but I was 100 percent sure that when you're stopped at a red light, you can touch your phone, and pretty much that's all I did, looked at my phone after I received a text, and put it back down, cop was behind me and landed a ticket.

Other than my speeding tickets and my cell phone ticket, I never had a claim, or an accident before.

Anyway, I understand how dumb and irresponsible this is, but we all know how expensive it is to just make ends meet these days, and I guess I rolled the dice and now I have to pay up or face whatever penalties that go with this.

We have a home, and home insurance policy, I'm a licensed electrician by trade, my credit is in really good standing, and I have some savings to cover for this.

What do I do now? I heard nothing from insurance or cops yet. Accident happened on Friday, and it is 4am Monday, I am on midnight shift this week. I am going to see my insurance broker first thing after work and see if he can advise me or do anything, which I highly doubt, but also, do I get legal representation or wait until I hear what's what?

I've read quite a bit about this and I am not really clear at what's going to happen? How can they charge me for driving uninsured now that there were no cops? The ladies at the reporting center weren't police officers. Can I claim that I didn't know that the car was uninsured hence I reported that it was at the reporting center? If they declare him at 100% fault, how will they find out that I was uninsured?

Any advise would be greatly appreciated. I thank everyone in advance. I am not a bum or broke and somewhat law abiding citizen (except the tickets). I served in the military, donate blood often, volunteer during holidays at food banks, work an average of 60+ hours every week, etc. I realize I screwed up, I just want to find the best way possible to be able to continue my life.


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Re: No Insurance Accident, Please Advise
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:47 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:38 pm
Posts: 95
For starters, the minimum fine for driving without insurance is $5000. On top of that, you knowingly used a policy number that the vehicle was not insured under to renew the licence plate and to file the accident report, which is fraud.

When dealing with an accident claim in Ontario, each driver/owner deals with his or her own insurance provider and the insurance companies sort out the fault and costs. It definitely will come up in that process that the vehicle is not insured under the policy.

Does the driver exclusion form cover all vehicles owned by your partner, or just the one that you weren't driving? You may also be looking at your partner's insurance policy being cancelled and having to go to facility insurance which is extremely expensive.

You will most likely need legal representation at some point however a lawyer really can't do much until you are actually charged/summoned. What they will tell you at this point is do not say anything to the police, especially do not lie to them. If I were you I would contact a lawyer to find out the best course of action in the meantime - do you "correct the record" regarding the accident report, or just wait to see if you are charged?


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Re: No Insurance Accident, Please Advise
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 12:30 am 
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Thank you for your to the point reply. Just had a few more questions. Now that I haven't been charged with anything yet, how will they charge me? My summons has to be delivered by a law officer, how will they do this now? Will the insurance call the police and ask them to charge me? In other words how will law enforcement find this out now that it's in insurance's hands?

Thank you in advance


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Re: No Insurance Accident, Please Advise
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 1:16 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:38 pm
Posts: 95
Here is a page with some info: http://www.ontariotraffictickets.com/traffic-tickets/no-insurance/.

So it looks like the statute of limitations on this is 3 years as opposed to the HTA's 6 months. To issue a summons, the police will knock on your door, ask for you, and then give you the summons. If someone else answers the door the summons can be given to him or her. Not sure what they do if no one answers the door after several attempts.

With regard to how the police will find out, I have no idea how communications between police and insurance works in the background. Police can call insurance companies to make sure the info is correct and the vehicle covered, but it sounds like this wasn't done at the time so it's really up in the air. I would expect to be hearing from someone in the near future though.


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Re: No Insurance Accident, Please Advise
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 8:45 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2010 3:30 am
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If noone answers they will not give up. They'll go to your work, or whatever else works. Not answering your door is a not a good option. These things don't go away.

_________________
Former Ontario Police Officer. Advice will become less relevant as the time goes by !


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Re: No Insurance Accident, Please Advise
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:23 am 
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Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2017 2:37 pm
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Thank you for the answers, I appreciate it immensely.

I went to the impound and picked up my belongings and left the car with them. Gave them signed ownership and paid for the charges. I really don't know how will they come after me for the charges even though it's on insurance's hands right now. Current insurance policy will be cancelled and we'll have to use facility for god knows how long, but the only way I see them coming after me would be after a civil suit from the other driver or his insurance if they come after me.

I'll wait and see I guess. I'd love some direction, this lingering feeling is not letting me sleep at night, plus there's a dose of guilt attached to it as well. I don't understand where this guilt is coming from.


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Re: No Insurance Accident, Please Advise
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:07 pm 
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Just so you are aware, they might be looking to charge both you and your partner. So you both should be worried.


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Re: No Insurance Accident, Please Advise
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:18 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2017 2:37 pm
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How and why would they want to charge my partner? She has an active policy on her vehicle, perfect driving record, she has a different last name, and she made me sign a driver exclusion form to protect herself! What else was she supposed to do?


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Re: No Insurance Accident, Please Advise
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 2:31 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:44 am
Posts: 1064
How about not lend her vehicle out to someone who signed an exclusion form and is driving without insurance?

Either she let you drive her car or you stole it. Pick one.


Compulsory Automobile Insurance Act

2 (1) Subject to the regulations, no owner or lessee of a motor vehicle shall,

(a) operate the motor vehicle; or
(b) cause or permit the motor vehicle to be operated,
on a highway unless the motor vehicle is insured under a contract of automobile insurance. 1994, c. 11, s. 383; 1996, c. 21, s. 50 (3).

It's also spelled out for you in the Excluded Driver Endorsement which she signed. The form (Form OPCF 28A) is standard for all providers.

"I may be charged with permitting the automobile to be driven without insurance;" followed by the insured signature.


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Re: No Insurance Accident, Please Advise
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:23 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 26, 2016 1:15 pm
Posts: 37
bend wrote:
It's also spelled out for you in the Excluded Driver Endorsement which she signed. The form (Form OPCF 28A) is standard for all providers.

"I may be charged with permitting the automobile to be driven without insurance;" followed by the insured signature.


I believe that he was not driving the excluded vehicle, rather a totally uninsured one. But your point about the owner being charged for allowing uninsured use is a good one.

To the OP:
Quote:
I don't understand where this guilt is coming from.


This guilt you are feeling, it's because you did a bad thing. I'm not sure why you're questioning it.


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Re: No Insurance Accident, Please Advise
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:46 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:44 am
Posts: 1064
whaddyaknow wrote:
I believe that he was not driving the excluded vehicle, rather a totally uninsured one. But your point about the owner being charged for allowing uninsured use is a good one.


Ah, yes. You are correct. Insurance was cancelled on the second vehicle. Exclusion form was on the fist.

Point still stands though. Thanks for the correction.


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Re: No Insurance Accident, Please Advise
PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:26 am 
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Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2017 2:37 pm
Posts: 6
Thank you for the information everyone. Yes I am fully aware that I've done a horrid thing, and I am thankful that nobody got seriously hurt or injured. Lesson learned. The law clearly states that I must be insured before driving so in case something like this happens I am covered, and the coverage has to do with money, pretty much to PAY for the damages, medical bills, and other things that insurance would normally pay, and I will do all of that out of my pocket, but aside from that, I wasn't speeding, drugged, or drunk, vehicle was in near perfect shape, new tires, brakes, suspension completely done both front and rear, and it was professionally aligned. I was going to work and back from which I am able to pay in excess of 40k+ in federal tax each year after overtime for many many years, and I was involved in a not at fault accident, the other driver cut in front of me turning left, and by the looks of it he was definitively high on some legal painkiller, as you could tell from the cain he had on the driver's seat with him, he is 33 years old but looked like 70, thought he could make it but he couldn't and I happened to hit him, now doesn't that count for something? Shouldn't it count for something?

I am not condoning what I did, but there are countless of way bigger criminals that get away with way bigger crimes, including our politicians, leaders, and people in power, and don't think for one minute that I don't know what I am talking about. Just recently a quarter billion dollars worth of cocaine got seized by OPP in Montreal on it's way to the rest of Canada from Argentina, and that's just the load that got caught....I am sure you know what happened to those "criminals", and countless of other cases of diplomats, judges, and prosecutors, and members of parliament getting away with all kinds of charges, DUI's, Cell phones, speeding, etc, and if you're interested I'll compile a list of articles.
Again, I am not condoning what I did, but there are criminals on top of criminals in every facet of our life, that get away with way bigger crimes than this.

We all speed, I have countless of footage of people on their cell phone, speeding, and on the road with junk vehicles that wouldn't even be allowed in a proper highway in another developed country, such as Germany or France. I would bus to work, but guess what, in my town and most towns in North America cars are the main means of transportation, unless you live in a large city, you can't find buses that take you to work. I would walk, but I would be endangering my life even more, because there is no sidewalks, or bicycle paths, I'd have to walk on the roadway. Either way I am SOFL, and guess what, I live in a developed 1st world country.

I am not judging, but absolutely everything could've been wrong with the person I had an accident with. To being with, I have pictures of his vehicle, tire thread, rotor depth, brake pad depth, loose suspension components, both ABS and traction control faulty, rear brake pads were metal to metal, and covered in brake oil, I was at the impound collecting personal belongings from my vehicle, and his was right beside mine, I have pictures, but just because he had insurance coverage, and I don't, automatically all that doesn't matter. I can post the pictures of his car, and all the above mentioned items, and post pictures of my car and all those items with receipts of time and date when the parts were purchased and replaced.

Move some might say, I might as well, because I made a very costly mistake, and I will pay for it, but it's very unfair, and it makes me regret serving this country where being an honest, simple, blue collar, paying tax man, a mistake such as mine can ruin your life financially but mostly psychologically, emotionally and lose your credibility as a human being.


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Re: No Insurance Accident, Please Advise
PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 8:34 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2015 10:41 am
Posts: 23
That's a long winded rant and I'm sure you feel you've accomplished something by writing it but at the end of the day what you did was not a mistake. I make mistakes all the time. I occasionally forget to take my drivers licence with me when I drive. I occasionally make mistakes in my work. But you deliberately chose to drive with no insurance simply because it suited you to do so. You didn't simply forget to renew a policy - you chose to drive without a policy. I have zero sympathy for you. The condition of the vehicle you drove and the condition of the other vehicle have nothing to do with the fact that you chose to break the law. Your rant just seems like you are trying to justify your actions, and it's no different than when someone gets a speeding ticket and then whines that other drivers are breaking the law too.


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Re: No Insurance Accident, Please Advise
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:15 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2017 2:37 pm
Posts: 6
It's not just a rant my dear fellow citizen, it's a realization that we're such small fish in a very big corrupt pond, and our votes, opinions, values, or contributions do not matter, and we have a say on nothing. They call it cognitive dissonance, and I've seen my share of things in this here life, to realize and see how those in power make the rules, do whatever they want with your taxes, and it got worse and worse as each year went by, and believe you me it's about to get even nastier, and again there won't be a goddamn thing that you and I or anybody can do about it.

A couple of quick links to remind you how badly we were always being fu***ed by the upper class, and continue to get fu**ed every living day. Oh and remember, always remember this is just the ones that got caught!!!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Scandal

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King%E2%80%93Byng_affair

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munsinger_Affair

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunagate

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grant_Bristow

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airbus_affair

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/APEC_Canada_1997

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shawinigate

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sponsorship_scandal

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_and_Out_scandal

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxime_Be ... esignation

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_ ... inee_issue

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Cana ... on_scandal

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ETS_Scandal

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_ ... rocurement

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_ ... es_scandal


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