Our website is made possible by displaying online advertisements to our visitors.
Please consider supporting us by disabling your ad blocker.

Ontario Highway Traffic Act

Discuss the Ontario Highway Traffic Act.


Post Your Traffic Ticket, and Get Help!


The Ontario Traffic Ticket Forum!


All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Check It Out
No unread posts New Set Fines Starting Sept 1st, 2015! Read and Learn Here.
  Print view

Court of Appeal sets things right on traffic offences
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 3:27 pm 
Offline
Sr. Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2010 9:39 am
Posts: 254
Location: The Valley
Court of Appeal sets things right on traffic offences: Shanoff
By ALAN SHANOFF
Last Updated: March 27, 2010 8:59pm
TORONTO SUN

During the past 10 months the Ontario Court of Appeal has released three valuable decisions making our roads and highways safer.

The most recent, a decision earlier this month, upheld the validity of the 50 km/h or over stunt driving offence. While I don’t understand how speeding 50 km/h over the limit constitutes stunt driving, it sure seems dangerous and the appeal court decision is welcome.

Jane Raham of Oakville doesn’t come across as your typical stunt driver.

I don’t know what moved the 62-year-old grandmother to attempt to pass a tractor trailer already speeding 10 km/h over the limit. But she did, and when passing the truck she accelerated to 131 km/h in an 80 zone, thereby placing her in jeopardy for a stunt driving charge.

She was initially convicted by a justice of the peace, but the conviction was set aside on appeal to the Ontario Court of Justice.

A stunt driving charge is no simple speeding charge. Aside from a minimum $2,000 fine — maximum $10,000 — all persons charged must surrender their licence, receive a seven-day licence suspension and also have their vehicles impounded for seven days at the owner’s expense.

Upon a first conviction the driver’s licence may be suspended for up to two years. There’s also a theoretical, but unlikely — save in the most egregious cases — jail sentence of up to six months.

The potential for a jail sentence created much confusion in lower courts with several judges declaring the 50 km/h stunt driving offence unconstitutional for violating the Charter right of fundamental justice.

The court of appeal, however, set things right by pointing out there was no such violation.

Raham’s acquittal was therefore set aside with the appeal court ordering a new trial where she can argue she took all reasonable steps necessary to avoid speeding 50 km/h over the limit.

Last November, the appeal court also solidified the July 2, 2008, driving over 80 amendments.

Prior to July 2, 2008, people charged with driving over 80 could argue their breath tests were invalid because the alcohol they had consumed couldn’t possibly have resulted in the breathalyzer readings obtained by police.

Two-drink defence

This defence, known as the Carter or two-drink defence, had been successfully used for years but was tightened up — some would argue eviscerated — in legislative amendments effective July 2, 2008. Unfortunately, the legislation didn’t state whether the amendments applied to people charged before July 2, whose trials took place after July 2.

With about 3,000 people in this situation, resolution of this point of law was no small issue. After numerous lower courts came down on both sides of the issue the appeal court, in the Samuel Dineley case, wisely decided the amendments applied to all trials taking place after July 2, regardless of when the charge was laid.

While the constitutional validity of the amendments wasn’t up for grabs in the case, comments made by the appeal court lead me to believe the amendments will later be upheld as being constitutional.

The last case in this trilogy is the Constance Banks decision of last June where the Ontario Court of Appeal restored a conviction in an impaired driving “care or control” case.

After consuming four beers in a visit with one of her daughters, Banks drove into a ditch off Airport Rd. She took her keys out of the ignition and was standing outside her car when a police officer arrived.

The question for the court was whether Banks was in “care or control” of her vehicle while standing outside the vehicle. If so, her breath test results — well over 80 — would be admissible as having been administered within the required two-hour window. In deciding it was open for the trial judge to conclude Banks was in care or control of her vehicle even while outside it, the appeal court has sent a strong message warning drivers not to drink and drive.

It’s a lesson we should all heed.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 6:25 pm 
Offline
Sr. Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 6:01 pm
Posts: 371
Location: GTA
Actually the second one scares me because while the defendant deserves the conviction and all the consequences that come with it, it's a slippery slope. What if I'm drinking in my house? The car keys are easily accessible, and I can see my car through the window. Or, what if I'm at a party and I just go to the car to get the sleeping bag from the back seat or the trunk (those days are behind me but something like that could have happened in my past)? Or when people are out camping? I mean you have a bunch of drunken people, with their vehicles parked right there, with keys in their pockets/purses.

_________________
What kind of a man would put a known criminal in charge of a major branch of government? Apart from, say, the average voter.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 6:31 pm 
Offline
Sr. Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2010 9:39 am
Posts: 254
Location: The Valley
I'd dare you to find one of those instances...strangely enough from time to time police use common sense...

Insofar as going to get something from your vehicle, well there aren't too many cars available these days without keyless entry...

But you do raise interesting points.

Jeez the law is complicated!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 9:24 pm 
Offline
Sr. Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 6:01 pm
Posts: 371
Location: GTA
When I was a student, I couldn't afford one.. After I started riding, I didn't wanna get one.. I just drive old junkers. All of my car purchases, maintenence and repairs in 13 years of driving wouldn't amount to the price of a single new car.
As for an officer applying common sense.. Sometimes they just don't want to.. Back in 05, I was coming back from my insurance broker's with a brand new temp slip. Well they messed up on the y/m/d order so it looked like the temp slip expired 4 years ago and as my luck would have it, I got pulled over for a doc check. The constable sure as hell didn't apply common sense in that incident. Just wrote me a ticket for not having my insurance papers and common sense would dictate that I wouldn't be able to get the car plated with an insurance policy that expired 4 years ago. Another $500 expense.. Fortunately, the insurance brokerage covered the paralegal so it didn't go out of my pocket.
Back to the original topic.. How are they gonna determine care and control once biometrics get involved in car design? I think there are already some cars out there where you can start the engine by using a fingerprint scanner.

_________________
What kind of a man would put a known criminal in charge of a major branch of government? Apart from, say, the average voter.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 8:38 am 
Offline
Member

Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 9:14 am
Posts: 139
Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but it touches on an issue a friend's 19 year old daughter is experiencing. She is a decent young girl who, like most 19 year olds, is in her partying stage. She's a good student, studying to be a teacher, and is an active and frequent volunteer on a level that you just don't see many 19 year olds participating. She's really a special young lady. Well, she was arrested in Durham Region about a week ago for being in care and control of a vehicle while intoxicated.

She and her friend were returning from a club. Her friend was the DD, and became very ill (not from drinking) and pulled over somewhere to throw up. She threw up all over the drivers' seat. Other friends were in cars following and they all pooled into this one abandoned parking lot. My friend's daughter was either in or near the drivers' seat cleaning up the puke (it was her car), and police entered the parking lot to see what was going on. The thing is, neither she nor her sick friend had the keys. She was cleaning the drivers' area but another friend had the keys in her pocket, taken from the sick friend for safe keeping when the sick friend went to a part of the parking lot to be sick (in case she lost the keys while crouching over).

There was confirmation that the sick girl driving my friend's daughter's car was not intoxicated. However, they charged my friend's daughter and she spent the night in jail. Her friends tried to tell the attending officers that they can confirm she was not driving, but I guess that being in drivers' seat is enough to be charged?

I thought the keys had to be in one's possession because without them she lacked the ability to perform a function or where the car may have been unintentionally set in motion? I'm sure glad I was never busted for this as there were many times I was out camping on the May 24 weekend and, drunk and freezing in my tent, went into my car, reclined the seat, and slept - in the passenger seat though because there was more room for the legs due to no steering wheel. I remember one particularly cold May 24 weekend in '95 at Sherkston in my friend's car, parked at our campsite, we both woke up near hypothermic and we rushed to the car. She had even started the car to get the heat going. She would've been in care and control, unless it's a different scenario because it was private property on a campground?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 9:13 am 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2008 2:49 pm
Posts: 1490
Location: somewhere in traffic
Quote:
I thought the keys had to be in one's possession because without them she lacked the ability to perform a function or where the car may have been unintentionally set in motion?


Care and control = Keys in hand. I would say there is an error in judgement on this one.

_________________
http://www.OHTA.ca OR http://www.OntarioTrafficAct.com


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 9:35 am 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2008 7:21 am
Posts: 2933
Location: In YOUR rearview mirror!
Marquisse wrote:
She would've been in care and control, unless it's a different scenario because it was private property on a campground?

Private property is not exempt from the criminal code.

_________________
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 10:25 am 
Offline
Member

Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 9:14 am
Posts: 139
I guess that's why her lawyer told her that her case looks good. All of her friends will be testifying on her behalf, and it will be proven that she did not have the keys in her possession. I wonder if it will make it past any preliminary knowing she did not have the keys.

Poor kid. Her chances of getting into the profession she wanted are seriously in jeopardy.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 12:13 pm 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2008 7:21 am
Posts: 2933
Location: In YOUR rearview mirror!
Marquisse wrote:
. She was cleaning the drivers' area but another friend had the keys in her pocket, taken from the sick friend for safe keeping when the sick friend went to a part of the parking lot to be sick (in case she lost the keys while crouching over).


in all the years I've been driving and working and seeing stuff like that.....that scenario is the most unsual I have ever heard of

_________________
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 12:52 pm 
Offline
VIP
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2010 10:20 am
Posts: 1065
If this is exactly how it happened it's another example of an officer with no discretion giving all police a bad image. And this is why I want to be a defence lawyer!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2010 1:09 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 9:14 am
Posts: 139
This story is what was told to me by her mother. There are a couple of possibilities, such as the daughter not being entirely forthcoming. However, they have already seen the lawyer and the facts have been laid out. My relationship with this young lady's mother is extremely candid. I don't believe the facts were misrepresented to me by her.

We hear of these type of oddities all of the time. Discretion leaves much open to interpretation, including the sketchy fulfillment of all elements of the section being cited. The charge is laid and the responsibility of proving the elements in accordance with our justice system is left to the Crown. In the meantime, the accused is left to pay heavy court fees, and in this young lady's case, $8k to $10k in legal fees alone, to say nothing about impound fees.

I am particularly baffled as to why she was arrested and not permitted to make her phonecall to her parents until later the next morning (I do not know what time she was finally allowed to make her call, but she was arrested at about 3:30am).

She goes back to court early next month, and although her lawyer is optimistic, they have been warned that this is a serious charge. I would hate to see her teaching goals altered because of this.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2010 2:19 am 
Offline
Sr. Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2010 9:39 am
Posts: 254
Location: The Valley
Personal phone call?

There's no right to a personal phone call...never heard of that before...

And despite what some people think, police know better than to believe people, I've been lied to thousands of times in my career...

I can think of 25 times I've had a flat out denial by somebody backed up by their alibi...then I show them the videotape of them in action...there's is little in the profession that matches the amusement I feel when I see that look on their faces.

I'm sure we can all find examples when we don't agree with the way police do things, or their use of discretion, but we shouldn't expect to. That would imply all things are face value as represented in the news...bottom line, the courts, impartial as they may be, get the final say.


I'm curious as to the outcome in court moreso than public opinion or news editorial musings.

Just sayin'

Sorry if I've been absent these past few weeks, last weeks 'near suicide by cop' still has me a little rattled...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 1:20 pm 
Offline
Member

Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 9:14 am
Posts: 139
Hey, you might want to check out Section 10 of the charter concerning phone calls, outlining the right to seek counsel without delay, and for many, it includes calling loved ones to call a lawyer, as we may not know of one ourselves. Not many of us have criminal lawyers on speeddial.

If it is not provided, even if the detainee says they don't need one, it opens up the Crown case to a Section 10 argument later on.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 4:20 pm 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2008 7:21 am
Posts: 2933
Location: In YOUR rearview mirror!
The person is an adult and there will be no personal phone call to home, friend etc... except when they are ready to be released from custody

The person can name a lawyer and I will call the lawyer, OR duty counsel will be called.

If they wanted a lawyer the parents used, I would personally call the parent and ask what lawyer they use, hang up and then immediately call the lawyer myself.

********
If someone says they do not want a lawyer, there is no call made. I am aware of cases being tossed should a lawyer be called when someone has said "no" as this is a unreasonable delay in the processing of the accused.

_________________
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca


Last edited by hwybear on Tue May 18, 2010 8:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 7:55 pm 
Offline
VIP
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2010 10:20 am
Posts: 1065
Agreed, the right extends to speaking with counsel of choice or duty counsel. Police will make all efforts to contact a specific lawyer if requested, but the right doesn't extend to making a personal phone call for any reason.

This is different than you see on American TV shows. Perhaps that's where the idea comes from.

_________________
http://www.boryslaw.ca
NOTHING I SAY ON HERE IS LEGAL ADVICE.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Related topics
 Topics   Author   Replies   Views   Last post 
This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies. No Traffic Offences can stick, if....

firewindnrain

1

1215

Wed Jan 13, 2010 4:26 pm

admin View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Training in Provincial Offences Court Practice

jsherk

1

335

Thu Sep 24, 2015 1:17 am

MYOHTA View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Lower Court not bound by Appeal Court?

hwybear

4

725

Tue Dec 01, 2009 11:34 am

hwybear View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Traffic Ticket Appeal

HTARep

0

750

Fri Apr 16, 2010 6:13 pm

HTARep View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. once i got my appeal date --what happens at court?

Off_Camber

10

3544

Mon Feb 22, 2010 1:34 pm

ManlyMinute View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Ontario Court Of Appeal

scmedicine

2

474

Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:15 am

highwaystar View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. attending the appeal in a local court...

binbin

8

798

Mon Aug 18, 2008 10:40 am

ticketcombat View the latest post

This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies. How to adjorn appeal Court Date

myticket

0

653

Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:15 pm

myticket View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Court of Appeal for Ontario help needed

gramada2

2

687

Mon Apr 14, 2014 6:57 pm

gramada2 View the latest post

This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies. Speed can Increase at trial - Court of Appeal

hwybear

0

3322

Sun Sep 13, 2009 12:23 pm

hwybear View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. Notice of Abandonment of appeal (Clerk of the court)

preludex

7

916

Wed Feb 01, 2012 2:48 pm

preludex View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. How to make sure my evidence is admissible in appeal court?

fighter84

7

609

Tue Jul 28, 2015 11:41 pm

fighter84 View the latest post

 


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Yahoo [Bot] and 6 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Web Development & Search Engine Optimization
Home | Court Listings | Ontario Traffic Ticket

Copyright 2007 - 2017 © Microtekblue Inc. Web Development & Search Engine Optimization Service. We Support phpBB All Rights Reserved.