Hey everyone, first off just want to say how incredible this forum is and how much knowledge is provided. I have a meeting with a prosecutor for early resolution, when I scheduled the meeting I asked the girl working if I can request full disclosure before going to the meeting, she replied no only the prosecutor has the officers notes. My question is - can I request full disclosure of the officers notes before the meeting? The reason being is I'd like to know what evidence there is against me and have full knowledge of the situation before I go in and talk about a plea. For example, what if I know I have a winning case due to flimsy evidence, and without the disclosure, I risk accepting a plea. Thanks!
Hey everyone, first off just want to say how incredible this forum is and how much knowledge is provided.
I have a meeting with a prosecutor for early resolution, when I scheduled the meeting I asked the girl working if I can request full disclosure before going to the meeting, she replied no only the prosecutor has the officers notes.
My question is - can I request full disclosure of the officers notes before the meeting?
The reason being is I'd like to know what evidence there is against me and have full knowledge of the situation before I go in and talk about a plea. For example, what if I know I have a winning case due to flimsy evidence, and without the disclosure, I risk accepting a plea.
You can request disclosure any time after a charge has been laid...others on this site would have you believe you have to wait until you have requested a trial...not so...
You can request disclosure any time after a charge has been laid...others on this site would have you believe you have to wait until you have requested a trial...not so...
Thanks! My meeting with prosecutor is Oct 6 - will I receive it in time? Also, I am planning on submitting a full disclosure request, and aside from the officers notes there are some other things I am going to be requesting (officer used a radar gun, based on some research there's certain things I should request for). Will I be able to get this in time? Can I use any of this to my advantage when dealing with the prosecutor?
screeech wrote:
You can request disclosure any time after a charge has been laid...others on this site would have you believe you have to wait until you have requested a trial...not so...
Thanks! My meeting with prosecutor is Oct 6 - will I receive it in time?
Also, I am planning on submitting a full disclosure request, and aside from the officers notes there are some other things I am going to be requesting (officer used a radar gun, based on some research there's certain things I should request for).
Will I be able to get this in time? Can I use any of this to my advantage when dealing with the prosecutor?
You can request disclosure anytime, but the prosecutor does not have to have it for you at the early resolution meeting. They may have it or they may not. They only have to have it for you by the trial.
You can request disclosure anytime, but the prosecutor does not have to have it for you at the early resolution meeting. They may have it or they may not. They only have to have it for you by the trial.
They should have it for you before the trial, not at the time for trial. If you have not received it far enough in advance as to be able to go over it and prepare a proper defence, you can ask for an adjournment...How much time before would be a question for the JP to make a determination on...2 days, 1 week, 3 weeks? each JP is different...
They should have it for you before the trial, not at the time for trial. If you have not received it far enough in advance as to be able to go over it and prepare a proper defence, you can ask for an adjournment...How much time before would be a question for the JP to make a determination on...2 days, 1 week, 3 weeks? each JP is different...
Thanks guys. I was reading some of your posts Jsherk regarding requesting disclosure of radar/lidar manual. I've learned a ton and I'm wondering if it's a useful strategy to go into the meeting with the prosecutor and perhaps show him that I'm well informed, will not accept a plea, and prepared to battle it out in trial - and that I'll be requesting a ton of things for disclosure that I need in order to make full answer to my charge. Basically I want the prosecutor to get the feeling of "oh man, I don't want to waste my time with this guy, he's going to be annoying and difficult" and dismiss it. What do you guys think? Is that even possible?
Thanks guys.
I was reading some of your posts Jsherk regarding requesting disclosure of radar/lidar manual. I've learned a ton and I'm wondering if it's a useful strategy to go into the meeting with the prosecutor and perhaps show him that I'm well informed, will not accept a plea, and prepared to battle it out in trial - and that I'll be requesting a ton of things for disclosure that I need in order to make full answer to my charge.
Basically I want the prosecutor to get the feeling of "oh man, I don't want to waste my time with this guy, he's going to be annoying and difficult" and dismiss it.
Sounds like you're just wasting everyone's time that day, including your own. You should have just asked for a trial. They are not going to be intimidated by a laundry list of disclosure requests. They'll end up giving you the notes and a couple pages out of the testing procedures. They'll leave you to explain to the JP why you need what you need. I'd suggest you don't simply copy and paste someones template without knowing what you're even asking for. They wont care. They'll tell you to wait for your Notice of Trial in the mail and move on to the next person.
arzon wrote:
I was reading some of your posts Jsherk regarding requesting disclosure of radar/lidar manual. I've learned a ton and I'm wondering if it's a useful strategy to go into the meeting with the prosecutor and perhaps show him that I'm well informed, will not accept a plea, and prepared to battle it out in trial - and that I'll be requesting a ton of things for disclosure that I need in order to make full answer to my charge.
Sounds like you're just wasting everyone's time that day, including your own. You should have just asked for a trial.
They are not going to be intimidated by a laundry list of disclosure requests. They'll end up giving you the notes and a couple pages out of the testing procedures. They'll leave you to explain to the JP why you need what you need. I'd suggest you don't simply copy and paste someones template without knowing what you're even asking for.
arzon wrote:
Basically I want the prosecutor to get the feeling of "oh man, I don't want to waste my time with this guy, he's going to be annoying and difficult" and dismiss it.
They wont care. They'll tell you to wait for your Notice of Trial in the mail and move on to the next person.
Sounds like you're just wasting everyone's time that day, including your own. You should have just asked for a trial. They are not going to be intimidated by a laundry list of disclosure requests. They'll end up giving you the notes and a couple pages out of the testing procedures. They'll leave you to explain to the JP why you need what you need. I'd suggest you don't simply copy and paste someones template without knowing what you're even asking for. They wont care. They'll tell you to wait for your Notice of Trial in the mail and move on to the next person. Thanks Bend. Is there anyway to get the case dropped/dismissed during an early resolution? Or is that pretty much impossible
bend wrote:
arzon wrote:
I was reading some of your posts Jsherk regarding requesting disclosure of radar/lidar manual. I've learned a ton and I'm wondering if it's a useful strategy to go into the meeting with the prosecutor and perhaps show him that I'm well informed, will not accept a plea, and prepared to battle it out in trial - and that I'll be requesting a ton of things for disclosure that I need in order to make full answer to my charge.
Sounds like you're just wasting everyone's time that day, including your own. You should have just asked for a trial.
They are not going to be intimidated by a laundry list of disclosure requests. They'll end up giving you the notes and a couple pages out of the testing procedures. They'll leave you to explain to the JP why you need what you need. I'd suggest you don't simply copy and paste someones template without knowing what you're even asking for.
arzon wrote:
Basically I want the prosecutor to get the feeling of "oh man, I don't want to waste my time with this guy, he's going to be annoying and difficult" and dismiss it.
They wont care. They'll tell you to wait for your Notice of Trial in the mail and move on to the next person.
Thanks Bend. Is there anyway to get the case dropped/dismissed during an early resolution? Or is that pretty much impossible
There would have to be something extremely wrong with the case to have it tossed out before a trial. You did not list any details of the stop, is there something about this that makes you believe it should be thrown out?
There would have to be something extremely wrong with the case to have it tossed out before a trial. You did not list any details of the stop, is there something about this that makes you believe it should be thrown out?
You run the risk of getting his back up and making it a mission to beat you at trial. Crowns are human after all.
arzon wrote:
Thanks guys.
I was reading some of your posts Jsherk regarding requesting disclosure of radar/lidar manual. I've learned a ton and I'm wondering if it's a useful strategy to go into the meeting with the prosecutor and perhaps show him that I'm well informed, will not accept a plea, and prepared to battle it out in trial - and that I'll be requesting a ton of things for disclosure that I need in order to make full answer to my charge.
Basically I want the prosecutor to get the feeling of "oh man, I don't want to waste my time with this guy, he's going to be annoying and difficult" and dismiss it.
What do you guys think? Is that even possible?
You run the risk of getting his back up and making it a mission to beat you at trial. Crowns are human after all.
Former Ontario Police Officer. Advice will become less relevant as the time goes by !
You run the risk of getting his back up and making it a mission to beat you at trial. Crowns are human after all. Thanks, that makes sense.
argyll wrote:
arzon wrote:
Thanks guys.
I was reading some of your posts Jsherk regarding requesting disclosure of radar/lidar manual. I've learned a ton and I'm wondering if it's a useful strategy to go into the meeting with the prosecutor and perhaps show him that I'm well informed, will not accept a plea, and prepared to battle it out in trial - and that I'll be requesting a ton of things for disclosure that I need in order to make full answer to my charge.
Basically I want the prosecutor to get the feeling of "oh man, I don't want to waste my time with this guy, he's going to be annoying and difficult" and dismiss it.
What do you guys think? Is that even possible?
You run the risk of getting his back up and making it a mission to beat you at trial. Crowns are human after all.
I don't have any details of the stop as I don't have the full disclosure of the officer's notes, which is the reason for this post. Basically I was pulled over doing 43km over... it was on highway 7, where it's normally 80km/hr for like 8km, however it JUST transformed into a 60 zone and he caught me literally at the transition. He mentioned how fast I was going, but he didn't provide any radar info at the stop, I'm assuming he used radar as he was posted in a trap. My defense would have to poke holes regarding the radar. But as mentioned, without the officer's notes I am not aware of the evidence used against me, so walking into the meeting is like going unarmed into battle.. which of course I would prefer to avoid by having full knowledge.
screeech wrote:
There would have to be something extremely wrong with the case to have it tossed out before a trial. You did not list any details of the stop, is there something about this that makes you believe it should be thrown out?
I don't have any details of the stop as I don't have the full disclosure of the officer's notes, which is the reason for this post.
Basically I was pulled over doing 43km over... it was on highway 7, where it's normally 80km/hr for like 8km, however it JUST transformed into a 60 zone and he caught me literally at the transition.
He mentioned how fast I was going, but he didn't provide any radar info at the stop, I'm assuming he used radar as he was posted in a trap.
My defense would have to poke holes regarding the radar. But as mentioned, without the officer's notes I am not aware of the evidence used against me, so walking into the meeting is like going unarmed into battle.. which of course I would prefer to avoid by having full knowledge.
Personally I think early resolution is usually a waste of time, unless you have something specific that will pretty much guarantee them dropping the charge when you show it to them. The best you can expect at the early resolution is that the prosecutor MIGHT offer you a plea deal to something like 29 over. But without disclosure it just means an extra visit and then going back for trial date as well, and they may or may not still offer you the plea deal at trial.
Personally I think early resolution is usually a waste of time, unless you have something specific that will pretty much guarantee them dropping the charge when you show it to them.
The best you can expect at the early resolution is that the prosecutor MIGHT offer you a plea deal to something like 29 over.
But without disclosure it just means an extra visit and then going back for trial date as well, and they may or may not still offer you the plea deal at trial.
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