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Unsafe lane change
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 9:01 pm 
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Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 7:03 pm
Posts: 5
Location: Oshawa Ont
Hi, Newbie here.

I don't see "Unsafe lane change" as a heading so I thought I would post it here?

Back in Novemeber 2010 while I was bring my snowmobile trailer home from storage, I had a incident with a City of Oshawa bus.

I was heading on Simcoe south and needed to turn right at Taunton, I noticed a bus in the right turning lane, (the lane I needed into) with his 4 ways on stopped at the bus stop.
I seen him from approx a 1/4-1/8 mile ahead sitting there with nobody getting on or off the bus, he was completely stopped and again, with his 4 way flashers on.

There area the bus was stopped was approximately 30-40 feet from the intersection, which imo gave me plenty of room to go in front of him and make my right turn safely.
(My truck is a 09 full size ext cab Sierra and my trailer is a 10 footer not including the tongue, which I assume is approx 4 feet?)

As I passed the bus, which was still stopped imo, I arrived at the intersection and waited for traffic to clear to make my right turn.
As I was sitting there I heard a few honks of a horn? I brushed it off as someone somewhere behind me honking at someone else.
As I was just about to make my turn, a knock came to my side window which was the bus driver.
I rolled down my window and he said I hit him?
I exited my vehicle and immediately noticed he had moved up approx 15-20 feet from his stopped position.

I told him this and that he was stopped when I went by him and had signalled etc so how is it I hit you, you have moved up 15-20 feet, did you not see my signal lights?

He stated I cut him off.

He had hit my snowmobile approx 1/2 way to 3/4 of the way back of it, hardly a mark and zero damage imo.
His mirror had turned and a small piece of reflective tape he had on it had a small peel mark on it, again zero damage imo.

I told him this, zero damage, no biggie don't worry about it, to which he replied he had to call the police as he is a public vehicle and they must call the police no matter how minor it is??

Police officer came, took both statements and assessed the scene.
About a 1/2 hour later he hands me and the bus driver tickets! Mine an unsafe lane change and his, failing to yield.
Never heard of both parties ever getting charged before and in all honesty I couldn't believe I was receiving one as I believe I did nothing wrong?


Just received disclosure info in the mail as I am fighting this Aug 15th/11 (clean record for 31yrs of driving and want to keep it that way)

I also received another letter stating his charge was reviewed by an outside jurisdiction and his charge was dropped?? (I was not involved in this decision, hearing, court date etc?)
On the same letter head it states my charge is still outstanding and see you on the 15th of this month :(

How can this be, how can both of us be charged, his gets dropped and mine continues?

I spoke to a prosector back in Jan who offered me a deal of $60 dollars instead of the $110 and offered me 1 dermit point back from 3.
I declined, I as I truly believe I am not at fault here?


Looking for some advice on a path forward, take the plea or fight the charge?

Any info big or small would be appreciated.

Thanks............Irv


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Re: Unsafe lane change
PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 12:52 am 
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Prosecutor can't offer you 1 point instead of 3. He doesn't have the authority. The charge was reviewed by an outside jurisdiction because that's the way it's always done when a city vehicle is involved to avoid the allegation of bias. His was dropped probably because the facts would not support the charge. Yours wasn't because, presumably, the facts will support your charge. At this point the amount of damage is, quite frankly, irrelevant to the charge since the charge only relates to the safety of your lane change.

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Re: Unsafe lane change
PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 8:44 am 
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Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 7:03 pm
Posts: 5
Location: Oshawa Ont
Simon Borys wrote:
Prosecutor can't offer you 1 point instead of 3. He doesn't have the authority. The charge was reviewed by an outside jurisdiction because that's the way it's always done when a city vehicle is involved to avoid the allegation of bias. His was dropped probably because the facts would not support the charge. Yours wasn't because, presumably, the facts will support your charge. At this point the amount of damage is, quite frankly, irrelevant to the charge since the charge only relates to the safety of your lane change.


His this like a case where it is my word against his, like I am in tough because he is a "City" bus driver and I am just a civilian, kind of like if he was a police officer, which means I don't stand a snowball's chance in hell of winning this?

I talked to X-Copper the other day and they want $500 dollars to fight my case, they said they might be able to something monetary but more than likely the points would stick?
Can I assume the bus driver's points stuck or was the entire ticket/fine tossed out, including the points?

With regards to the prosecutor offering me 1 point back, that is what I was offered so I assume she wasn't a prosecutor?
Not sure who she was then, but it my opinion, she was in no way trying to help me resolve this, she seemed very "bit*hy" if you will?

In your opinion, should I continue trying to fight this or take my lumps and get it over with?

Thanks for replying Simon, I appreciate the info.........Irv


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Re: Unsafe lane change
PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 10:51 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:49 pm
Posts: 2110
Location: Ontario
I'm wondering if the prosecutor was offering you a plea deal to a different offence. While they can't change the points associated with your charge, they can allow you to plea to a different offence with fewer points and/or a reduced fine. I'd personally pass on the representation if all they feel they can do is obtain a lower fine, since you'd actually be spending more.

The other driver will not face any demerit points. Points are only applied upon conviction. In terms of him being a City bus driver, that should not matter in Court. There is case law stating that every person's evidence should be treated equally assuming they're found to be credible and consistent.

In terms of going to trial or not, that's difficult for anyone to say without knowing all the details and seeing all the disclosure.


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Re: Unsafe lane change
PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 6:00 pm 
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I don't think it's a question of his word being better because he's a bus driver - that's why they bring in an out of town prosecutor for theses situations. To be clear, NO ONE has the authority to reduce points. They only way people end up with less points is, as Stanton said, they plead to an offence that carries less points. However, I am not aware of any that carry only 1 so I don't know what the prosecutor was referring to.

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Re: Unsafe lane change
PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2011 9:06 pm 
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Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 7:03 pm
Posts: 5
Location: Oshawa Ont
Simon Borys wrote:
I don't think it's a question of his word being better because he's a bus driver - that's why they bring in an out of town prosecutor for theses situations. To be clear, NO ONE has the authority to reduce points. They only way people end up with less points is, as Stanton said, they plead to an offence that carries less points. However, I am not aware of any that carry only 1 so I don't know what the prosecutor was referring to.


Well that is what I was offered and if she is not a prosecutor, then I am not sure who she was?

When I first went in to see her, she reviewed, listened and told me I was given some bad advice by my police officer friend, she stated once a ticket is issued it simply "Can't be ripped up! just as loud and bold as that!

That is when she said she couldn't do nothing with the money part of the ticket but could offer me one point.

I found this odd as anything I have ever heard before, it was always the money they offered to reduce, not the points?

Long story short, after I think she knew I was going to proceed with this (fight it) is when she offered me $60 dollars and 2 points rather than the full $110 and 3 points.

I also believe she said I had up to a week before the trial to accept this if I changed my mind? That will be this Monday and I have no clue what her name is and I probably wouldn't be able to get in to see her on such short notice?

The disclosure notes don't say a whole lot, they are a little off what I remember saying to the police officer but nothing really incriminating towards either party, other than the Bus driver saying he didn't see my signal lights?

That, if I choose to fight this, is really all I can use, the fact he was stopped with his 4 ways on when I went by him and he didn't see my signal lights, is that my fault he didn't see them?

Thanks again for the info, just wish I had something concrete to use when I get up on the stand..........Irv


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