So I was convicted of proceeding green before red light and I want to appeal it because I am completely not guilty. I entered the intersection when my light was green. When I tried to turn left some cars started sooner (or maybe the timing of the light was having an issue). The other cars horned and the officer who was on foot pooled me over and he taught I pass the red light. He did not see my traffic light and he assumed based on the other signals. He then testified that he is expert in the traffic signal and the timing was OK. Do you think I have a chance to appeal it?
Appeal Red light conviction
So I was convicted of proceeding green before red light and I want to appeal it because I am completely not guilty. I entered the intersection when my light was green. When I tried to turn left some cars started sooner (or maybe the timing of the light was having an issue). The other cars horned and the officer who was on foot pooled me over and he taught I pass the red light. He did not see my traffic light and he assumed based on the other signals. He then testified that he is expert in the traffic signal and the timing was OK. Do you think I have a chance to appeal it?
Re: Appeal Red light conviction
Appeals are not do-overs. You either had a fair trial or you didn't. Be aware it's not an opportunity to rehash the same arguments.
Appeals are not do-overs. You either had a fair trial or you didn't. Be aware it's not an opportunity to rehash the same arguments.
Re: Appeal Red light conviction
To be granted an appeal you need to convince the Courts that one of the following occurred: 1) Your conviction was unreasonable or not supported by evidence. 2) The Justice of the Peace made a legal mistake. 3) There was a miscarriage of justice. Special appeals can also be allowed if there was misconduct on the part of a lawyer or significant new evidence that's come to light. The process can be difficult and typically requires some familiarity with the law. As Bend said, it's not going to be a repeat of your trial. Rather, you'll need to convince the Courts that the evidence from your first trial should NOT have resulted in a finding of guilt.
To be granted an appeal you need to convince the Courts that one of the following occurred:
1) Your conviction was unreasonable or not supported by evidence.
2) The Justice of the Peace made a legal mistake.
3) There was a miscarriage of justice.
Special appeals can also be allowed if there was misconduct on the part of a lawyer or significant new evidence that's come to light.
The process can be difficult and typically requires some familiarity with the law. As Bend said, it's not going to be a repeat of your trial. Rather, you'll need to convince the Courts that the evidence from your first trial should NOT have resulted in a finding of guilt.
Re: Appeal Red light conviction
This was an RCMP matter and I had a document from RCMP that they didn't have any documents (including officers) note 20 days after incidents, I presented this to the judge but she didn't accept it. I want to use this as ground of my appeal. Do you think does this a good ground?
This was an RCMP matter and I had a document from RCMP that they didn't have any documents (including officers) note 20 days after incidents, I presented this to the judge but she didn't accept it. I want to use this as ground of my appeal. Do you think does this a good ground?
Re: Appeal Red light conviction
Does the note say they didn't have any or did it say they didn't have anything ready to share with you. The RCMP wouldn't give you anything directly, it would come from the Crown.
Does the note say they didn't have any or did it say they didn't have anything ready to share with you. The RCMP wouldn't give you anything directly, it would come from the Crown.
Former Ontario Police Officer. Advice will become less relevant as the time goes by !
Re: Appeal Red light conviction
What specifically do you believe the issue to be, that your disclosure wasnt ready 20 days after the offence? For reference, many defendants wait months to receive disclosure. Did you eventually receive disclosure? If so how long before your trial? As long as you had a reasonable amount of time to review the evidence against you, the Courts wont consider a delay in disclosure grounds for appeal. While a "reasonable" amount of time could be up for debate, typically for a simple traffic matter with a few pages of notes, it would be a short period of time (weeks at best). I should also mention, if you are going to appeal, keep in mind you only have 30 days from you date of conviction to do so.
What specifically do you believe the issue to be, that your disclosure wasnt ready 20 days after the offence? For reference, many defendants wait months to receive disclosure. Did you eventually receive disclosure? If so how long before your trial? As long as you had a reasonable amount of time to review the evidence against you, the Courts wont consider a delay in disclosure grounds for appeal. While a "reasonable" amount of time could be up for debate, typically for a simple traffic matter with a few pages of notes, it would be a short period of time (weeks at best).
I should also mention, if you are going to appeal, keep in mind you only have 30 days from you date of conviction to do so.
Re: Appeal Red light conviction
I believe the officer should write the note as soon as he writes a ticket and if he writes a note 20 days after the offence it is not credible. Because this was a RCMP issue so all document are belong to Federal Government and subject to Access to Information and Privacy Act. I used Privacy act to ask the RCMP to provide me all the information regarding the ticket and 20 days after the ticket they said they checked their documents and they do not have a officer's note. This shows RCMP did not have such note at least 20 days after ticket. And the note was the only evidence that Judge used there wasn't any wittiness or video,...
I believe the officer should write the note as soon as he writes a ticket and if he writes a note 20 days after the offence it is not credible. Because this was a RCMP issue so all document are belong to Federal Government and subject to Access to Information and Privacy Act. I used Privacy act to ask the RCMP to provide me all the information regarding the ticket and 20 days after the ticket they said they checked their documents and they do not have a officer's note. This shows RCMP did not have such note at least 20 days after ticket. And the note was the only evidence that Judge used there wasn't any wittiness or video,...
Re: Appeal Red light conviction
I'm just curious as to where this ticket was received? Also, disclosure comes from the prosecutor. There should be no need to contact the issuing police service.
I'm just curious as to where this ticket was received?
Also, disclosure comes from the prosecutor. There should be no need to contact the issuing police service.
Re: Appeal Red light conviction
Ottawa. I requested the disclosure from prosecutor as soon as I received the court date but they didn't give me the officers note more than 3 month later. Also, officers not doesn't have a date written. I asked officer in the court specifically that if the note belongs to the RCMP or you and he said:RCMP. But RCMP letter shows they didn't have it at least 20 days later than ticket submission. DO you think this is good ground for appeal?
Ottawa. I requested the disclosure from prosecutor as soon as I received the court date but they didn't give me the officers note more than 3 month later. Also, officers not doesn't have a date written. I asked officer in the court specifically that if the note belongs to the RCMP or you and he said:RCMP. But RCMP letter shows they didn't have it at least 20 days later than ticket submission. DO you think this is good ground for appeal?
Re: Appeal Red light conviction
They said they searched all of their documents and they do not have such a note.
argyll wrote:
Does the note say they didn't have any or did it say they didn't have anything ready to share with you. The RCMP wouldn't give you anything directly, it would come from the Crown.
They said they searched all of their documents and they do not have such a note.
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Re: Appeal Red light conviction
Notes re in the officers notebook and not on a RCMP system. ATI will only check the official system. It does not mean that the notes were done after the fact. OPS
Notes re in the officers notebook and not on a RCMP system. ATI will only check the official system. It does not mean that the notes were done after the fact.
OPS
Re: Appeal Red light conviction
If I appeal, what do I have to loose? I have been convicted with the set fine. Are there any bad consequences like the prosecutor can change the charge or increase the fine? Please help me
If I appeal, what do I have to loose? I have been convicted with the set fine. Are there any bad consequences like the prosecutor can change the charge or increase the fine? Please help me
Re: Appeal Red light conviction
Just your time and money to file. You need to prove that the trial judge made a mistake in law. Not that he interpreted the evidence in a way you didn't like. From what you have told us you are wasting your time.
Just your time and money to file. You need to prove that the trial judge made a mistake in law. Not that he interpreted the evidence in a way you didn't like. From what you have told us you are wasting your time.
Former Ontario Police Officer. Advice will become less relevant as the time goes by !
Re: Appeal Red light conviction
except transcriptions, is there any other cost involved?
except transcriptions, is there any other cost involved?
Re: Appeal Red light conviction
When prosecutor asked the judge if the officer can use his note, the judge didn't ask me if I have an objection, Is this could be ground for appeal?
When prosecutor asked the judge if the officer can use his note, the judge didn't ask me if I have an objection, Is this could be ground for appeal?
Re: Appeal Red light conviction
It could be one point for sure, yes! You want to find as many issues like that as you can though. The more the better.
It could be one point for sure, yes! You want to find as many issues like that as you can though. The more the better.
+++ This is not legal advice, only my opinion +++
Re: Appeal Red light conviction
It is not the judge's job to solicit objections. If you had had an objection you could have raised it. The fact that you didn't will make it almost impossible to raise as an issue at appeal. The fact that some judges may ask if counsel have any objection does not make it a requirement.
It is not the judge's job to solicit objections. If you had had an objection you could have raised it. The fact that you didn't will make it almost impossible to raise as an issue at appeal. The fact that some judges may ask if counsel have any objection does not make it a requirement.
Former Ontario Police Officer. Advice will become less relevant as the time goes by !
Re: Appeal Red light conviction
What would your objection have even been?
What would your objection have even been?
Re: Appeal Red light conviction
RCMP officially stated 20 days after the ticket that there is no such a note existed.
lolwut wrote:
What would your objection have even been?
RCMP officially stated 20 days after the ticket that there is no such a note existed.
Re: Appeal Red light conviction
Did you submit a disclosure request to the crown or just an FOI request to the RCMP?
Did you submit a disclosure request to the crown or just an FOI request to the RCMP?
Re: Appeal Red light conviction
I did to the crown but I did it Separately I requested it through Federal Access to Information act because it was an RCMP matter and the any document is the Federal document and its subject to that Act they have the obligation to provide you that information but they said there is none existed.
lolwut wrote:
Did you submit a disclosure request to the crown or just an FOI request to the RCMP?
I did to the crown but I did it Separately I requested it through Federal Access to Information act because it was an RCMP matter and the any document is the Federal document and its subject to that Act they have the obligation to provide you that information but they said there is none existed.
Re: Appeal Red light conviction
Something isn't right. There's no way you would have a FOI response 20 days after the incident. They take along time. Could it have been some other response?
Something isn't right. There's no way you would have a FOI response 20 days after the incident. They take along time. Could it have been some other response?
Former Ontario Police Officer. Advice will become less relevant as the time goes by !
Re: Appeal Red light conviction
http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/a-1/ They have 30 days to respond when you request the information. This is only for Federal Government record which includes RCMP
argyll wrote:
Something isn't right. There's no way you would have a FOI response 20 days after the incident. They take along time. Could it have been some other response?
http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/a-1/
They have 30 days to respond when you request the information. This is only for Federal Government record which includes RCMP
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Re: Appeal Red light conviction
Without seeing what request you made and what the response was it's difficult to comment. ATI is a bit of a minefield.
Without seeing what request you made and what the response was it's difficult to comment. ATI is a bit of a minefield.
Former Ontario Police Officer. Advice will become less relevant as the time goes by !
Re: Appeal Red light conviction
I have uploaded the RCMP letter in my previous response. Please check it out
argyll wrote:
Without seeing what request you made and what the response was it's difficult to comment. ATI is a bit of a minefield.
I have uploaded the RCMP letter in my previous response. Please check it out
Re: Appeal Red light conviction
Could please someone help me? I need to know what is the case/Law that says Officer should write its note as soon as possible?
Could please someone help me? I need to know what is the case/Law that says Officer should write its note as soon as possible?
Re: Appeal Red light conviction
Just to be clear - this was in Ontario, right? It isn't often that the RCMP write traffic tickets in Ontario. It isn't just notes that the letter above says they didn't have, it says they have nothing. This suggests that either they made an error or you made an error somewhere in your request perhaps to whom you sent it. This doesn't show that the notes were written after 20 days or else the entire occurrence wouldn't have been created after that time on the computers and that isn't possible. Did you get the notes in your disclosure from the Crown? If so then any complaint you may have will be through the Privacy Act provisions.
Just to be clear - this was in Ontario, right? It isn't often that the RCMP write traffic tickets in Ontario.
It isn't just notes that the letter above says they didn't have, it says they have nothing. This suggests that either they made an error or you made an error somewhere in your request perhaps to whom you sent it. This doesn't show that the notes were written after 20 days or else the entire occurrence wouldn't have been created after that time on the computers and that isn't possible.
Did you get the notes in your disclosure from the Crown? If so then any complaint you may have will be through the Privacy Act provisions.
Former Ontario Police Officer. Advice will become less relevant as the time goes by !
Re: Appeal Red light conviction
I don't think this is any ground for an appeal. You did receive disclosure in the normal course of the court process.
hashe31us wrote:
Ottawa. I requested the disclosure from prosecutor as soon as I received the court date but they didn't give me the officers note more than 3 month later. Also, officers not doesn't have a date written. I asked officer in the court specifically that if the note belongs to the RCMP or you and he said:RCMP. But RCMP letter shows they didn't have it at least 20 days later than ticket submission. DO you think this is good ground for appeal?
I don't think this is any ground for an appeal. You did receive disclosure in the normal course of the court process.
Former Ontario Police Officer. Advice will become less relevant as the time goes by !
Re: Appeal Red light conviction
Can you scan and post EVERYTHING you have (original ticket and anything else you have received)?
Can you scan and post EVERYTHING you have (original ticket and anything else you have received)?
+++ This is not legal advice, only my opinion +++
Re: Appeal Red light conviction
• The only crown evidence was officers note. • The officer note belongs to RCMP (I specifically asked him in cross-examination If the note belongs to him or RCMP He said: RCMP). • The note was not written in reasonable time (The evidence is the RCMP letter which stats there is no such document existed. This letter dated 20 days after the ticketed issued. ) • The Federal Government has the obligation based on Privacy and Access to information act to provide this information within 30 days of your request. • This is not related to disclosure, my defense is the crown evidence is not reliable. I need the case /law that stats officer should write his note in reasonable time.
argyll wrote:
Just to be clear - this was in Ontario, right? It isn't often that the RCMP write traffic tickets in Ontario.
It isn't just notes that the letter above says they didn't have, it says they have nothing. This suggests that either they made an error or you made an error somewhere in your request perhaps to whom you sent it. This doesn't show that the notes were written after 20 days or else the entire occurrence wouldn't have been created after that time on the computers and that isn't possible.
Did you get the notes in your disclosure from the Crown? If so then any complaint you may have will be through the Privacy Act provisions.
• The only crown evidence was officers note.
• The officer note belongs to RCMP (I specifically asked him in cross-examination If the note belongs to him or RCMP He said: RCMP).
• The note was not written in reasonable time (The evidence is the RCMP letter which stats there is no such document existed. This letter dated 20 days after the ticketed issued. )
• The Federal Government has the obligation based on Privacy and Access to information act to provide this information within 30 days of your request.
• This is not related to disclosure, my defense is the crown evidence is not reliable.
I need the case /law that stats officer should write his note in reasonable time.
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