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Fighting Disobey Sign 182 (2)
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 3:24 pm 
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Hi,
I received a ticket on February 27 2017 for turning right onto a street between 7 and 9 AM when there was a sign prohibiting that turn.
The court date to fight the ticket was set for February 7, 2018.
I requested and recieved full disclosure which is attached below
My main concern is that my insurance will increase and that I will receive demerit points.
I have a few ideas of what I plan to argue in court and I was wondering if any of these are valid grounds for dismissal in court.

1) the ticket was given for turning from steels onto Hilda, which means that once the turn was complete the ticket was given to me in the city of Toronto, but the officer was a York Regional Police and the court is the York regional court. (do I have a right for the trial to be in the same jurisdiction as the offence? also if the offence is "entering toronto illegally" does that mean the offence happened in Toronto?, and can the trial take place in a non toronto courtroom?)

2) if there was a bus in front of me (i do not remember if there was, but it is a busy bus root), then I would be unable to see the sign up until I actualy make the illegal turn. I video taped a drive down that root behind a bus and the sign is not visible in the video. (will I be able to show the video in court, and is it a valid arguement) The video link is below
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0aG5Y4vQGo

3) The court date is almost a year after the date the event happened, how can I be expected to remember the events and do I still have a

4) I requested a translator for a very uncommon language (I speak english fluently, but I would like to argue that I have the right to defend myself in the language I am most confortable speaking) If they do not provide a translator, is that grounds for dismissal, even though I could speak English.

5) Can i argue that the sun was in my eyes (the officers disclosure says it was a sunny morning and I was headed eastbound)

I attached the disclosure, so you can look over it and advise me on what my best option is to avoid any demerit points or increases in insurance premiums.


Attachments:
File comment: The full disclosure from the officer
full disclosure.jpg
full disclosure.jpg [ 232.47 KiB | Viewed 180 times ]
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Re: Fighting Disobey Sign 182 (2)
PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:11 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2016 10:09 am
Posts: 217
JoeBisk wrote:
1) the ticket was given for turning from steels onto Hilda, which means that once the turn was complete the ticket was given to me in the city of Toronto, but the officer was a York Regional Police and the court is the York regional court. (do I have a right for the trial to be in the same jurisdiction as the offence? also if the offence is "entering toronto illegally" does that mean the offence happened in Toronto?, and can the trial take place in a non toronto courtroom?)
At one time, you may have been able to question why a York Regional Police officer was patrolling in Toronto. That doesn't work anymore, however. The offence happened in Toronto. The eastbound lanes of Steeles are in Toronto and you turned onto a street in Toronto. Even though the Toronto court should probably have jurisdiction, the Provincial Offences Act allows an adjacent municipality to have jurisdiction. You have nothing here.

JoeBisk wrote:
2) if there was a bus in front of me (i do not remember if there was, but it is a busy bus root), then I would be unable to see the sign up until I actualy make the illegal turn. I video taped a drive down that root behind a bus and the sign is not visible in the video. (will I be able to show the video in court, and is it a valid arguement) The video link is below
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0aG5Y4vQGo
You were following the bus too closely. Had you been the proper distance behind the bus, you would have seen the signs.

JoeBisk wrote:
3) The court date is almost a year after the date the event happened, how can I be expected to remember the events and do I still have a
I'm not sure what the rest of this question was going to be, but you'd need 18 months for the case to be "too old."

JoeBisk wrote:
I requested a translator for a very uncommon language (I speak english fluently, but I would like to argue that I have the right to defend myself in the language I am most confortable speaking) If they do not provide a translator, is that grounds for dismissal, even though I could speak English.
Be careful with this one. Yes, you have the right to defend yourself in the language of your choice, but if you are fluent in English, the court could view the interpreter request as a stall tactic or an attempt to find a loophole. Did you request an interpreter when you filed the trial request? If not, the court is under no obligation to provide one. If you request one the day of the trial and one is not available, the matter will be adjourned and the interpreter will be available on the new date. If, at that time, there's still no interpreter, it may be withdrawn.

JoeBisk wrote:
5) Can i argue that the sun was in my eyes (the officers disclosure says it was a sunny morning and I was headed eastbound)
Of course you can argue that. But it won't get you anywhere. If the sun is in your eyes, wear sunglasses or drop the visor. Or find a safe place to pull over and wait until the sun is high enough.

JoeBisk wrote:
I attached the disclosure, so you can look over it and advise me on what my best option is to avoid any demerit points or increases in insurance premiums.
The prosecutor may offer you an alternate offence that does not carry demerit points. The effect on your insurance will be the same regardless, but it's always good to avoid points.


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Re: Fighting Disobey Sign 182 (2)
PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:12 pm 
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Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2017 2:53 pm
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Thank you for your clear and helpful response zatota.
I requested the translator when I choose the court option on the back of my ticket.
when I was given a court date, there was no mention of a translator in the notice of trial.
do you think that this means no translator will be provided and I will be able to get the trial rescheduled, once I am already in the court room (and hope that the new date is more than 18 months after the alleged offence?)


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Re: Fighting Disobey Sign 182 (2)
PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:06 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2016 10:09 am
Posts: 217
I'm not sure whether the Notice of Trial indicates whether there will be an interpreter. The prosecutor, however, will have a record of your request. If, for whatever reason, your request has fallen through the cracks or an interpreter is not available, you will likely be offered an adjournment. The prosecutor will try to get the new date within the remaining time, subject to the officer's availability on the suggested dates. Here's where you could have an issue, though. If the JP explains to you in English that no interpreter was available, etc., and you clearly show you understand, or you speak with the prosecutor in perfect English, the court could rule that you are not entitled to an interpreter. You carry the burden of proof that you do not understand English.


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Re: Fighting Disobey Sign 182 (2)
PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:00 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 5:46 pm
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The interpreter tactic won't work. They have lots of interpreters from some very obscure languages like Aramaic, Tigrinya and even Xhosa. They may only have 1 interpreter that speaks that language in the provincial roster, but they'll fly one in if necessary.

The interpreter tactic generally backfires because it just prolongs your case. The court is unwilling to provide a stay for delay because your case is 'extra-ordinary' and the Crown's delay is reasonable----the delay is simply to accommodate YOUR needs; not theirs. Even when they don't have an interpreter on the provincial roster, I've seen it where they will pay for a private interpreter to come in.

If its later found out that you DO speak English fluently, you could be held in contempt of court. Be careful of using this tactic---it rarely leads to a dismissal of the charge.


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Re: Fighting Disobey Sign 182 (2)
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 5:20 am 
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....and I would suggest that by posting such clear details of your case on an open forum there is a good chance that it could be known you speak English. Tread carefully.

_________________
Former Ontario Police Officer. Advice will become less relevant as the time goes by !


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