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failing to stop at a stop sign - on camera?
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:43 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:22 am
Posts: 3
Hello
I need some advice.
This morning I was pulled over because I "failed to stop at a stop sign".
I feel that I did stop. But maybe not as long as they want? or maybe not exactly on the line of the stop sign?
Anyways, the officer immediately told me before he says anything that I am on camera and he his recording this and had recorded my offence.
It was a 4 way stop sign. And there was a car in front of me that stopped at the stop sign, enough so that I had to stop right behind him. When the car in front of me proceeded. I moved up and stopped long enough to know that there were no other cars in the 4 way intersection except myself, and that there were no pedestrians in the 4 way intersection either.
Did I do a rolling stop? I dont know
So the ticket is 110$ and the demerit points are 3.
Im planning to take option 3.
Now there is a camera of this so I guess that will determine if it was a rolling stop or not.
When they say failed to stop at a stop sign - its not as if I sped right through and wasnt aware there was a stop sign, I wasnt even going fast since I stopped behind the car in front of me. I didnt stop as long as he did though when it was my turn. But I also yielded to any traffic enough to know there was no traffic in that intersection.
So I look at it like this:
I take option 3 and go to court:
- either be found guilty and have to still pay the 110$ and get the 3 demerit points
- be found guilty and pay less than the 110$ and get the 3 d. points
- be found guilty and pay the fine and have the 3 points waived (due to my record being good)
- be found not guilty and pay no fine and no points . all waived.
(all based on the officer showing up - which usually happens these days)

1) my question then is what is the most likely senario???

2) And also I read that if I plead not guilty I have to request his notes and other evidence (the video?)

3) And I also have a question about the trial date being set a year over the ticket date? - I heard that the ticket is automatically waived then? What is that process?

Thank you!


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Re: failing to stop at a stop sign - on camera?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 5:35 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:49 pm
Posts: 2110
Location: Ontario
nuevodia wrote:
When they say failed to stop at a stop sign - its not as if I sped right through and wasnt aware there was a stop sign, I wasnt even going fast since I stopped behind the car in front of me. I didnt stop as long as he did though when it was my turn. But I also yielded to any traffic enough to know there was no traffic in that intersection.


There is no time requirement for how long you need to stop, just that you need to stop. The fact that there was no other traffic, no accident, etc. isn't relevant to the offence. You either stopped or you didn't.

nuevodia wrote:
- either be found guilty and have to still pay the 110$ and get the 3 demerit points
- be found guilty and pay less than the 110$ and get the 3 d. points
- be found guilty and pay the fine and have the 3 points waived (due to my record being good)
- be found not guilty and pay no fine and no points . all waived.
(all based on the officer showing up - which usually happens these days)

Points cannot be waived. If you're found guilty, you'll get them. Only way to avoid points is to be found not guilty or make a deal to plea to a different offence with no points.

nuevodia wrote:
1) my question then is what is the most likely senario???

Good chance the Crown will offer you some type of deal, but beyond that is anyone's guess. If there is good video I think it would be somewhat harder to argue in Court.

nuevodia wrote:
2) And also I read that if I plead not guilty I have to request his notes and other evidence (the video?)

You have to request disclosure. Process varies from one jurisdiction to the next. Contact the courts to find out.

nuevodia wrote:
3) And I also have a question about the trial date being set a year over the ticket date? - I heard that the ticket is automatically waived then? What is that process?

It's not automatic and quite involved. You have to file a legal motion prior to your trial date. Guides on the process can be found on this site.


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Re: failing to stop at a stop sign - on camera?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 6:40 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:26 pm
Posts: 2881
Location: Toronto
The camera was mounted in the cop car... can't say for sure how good of a view it had. You should request the video of the alleged offence as part of the disclosure package.

If it goes longer than a year, "waiving" the ticket is not automatic. You have to file the proper paperwork to get the charge tossed.

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* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca


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Re: failing to stop at a stop sign - on camera?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:15 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:22 am
Posts: 3
Stanton :"Points cannot be waived. If you're found guilty, you'll get them. Only way to avoid points is to be found not guilty or make a deal to plea to a different offence with no points"

Thanks so much for your advice! But Ok so this is making me more nervous... would I need someone to represent me then to make this deal? What other offence do I plea to? I dont think I can just choose any other offence. Or will the judge offer up a deal?


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Re: failing to stop at a stop sign - on camera?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:21 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:22 am
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Radar Identified wrote:
The camera was mounted in the cop car... can't say for sure how good of a view it had. You should request the video of the alleged offence as part of the disclosure package.

If it goes longer than a year, "waiving" the ticket is not automatic. You have to file the proper paperwork to get the charge tossed.


Thank you for your advice!
I plan to go in to the court this Friday or next Wed and take option 3 and wait for a court date. Is this the time I request a disclosure package? Is it verbal or do I need to fax or bring a written note requesting this on that day?


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Re: failing to stop at a stop sign - on camera?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:42 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:49 pm
Posts: 2110
Location: Ontario
nuevodia wrote:
Stanton :"Points cannot be waived. If you're found guilty, you'll get them. Only way to avoid points is to be found not guilty or make a deal to plea to a different offence with no points"

Thanks so much for your advice! But Ok so this is making me more nervous... would I need someone to represent me then to make this deal? What other offence do I plea to? I dont think I can just choose any other offence. Or will the judge offer up a deal?


You can request a first attendance meeting with the Crown. This a a pre-trial meeting, where you can ask the Crown if they're willing to offer any type of deal. Only the Crown can offer you a deal to a different charge, the Justice of Peace can only find you guilty or not guilty of the offence you go to trial on. You don't need someone to represent you. I'm not sure what alternate charge you could plead to that wouldn't carry points though. Some municipalities have by-law charges for stop signs, which unlike the HTA don't have points.


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