Hi, I received a ticket in July for right-turn onto St Pauls Square from Bloor St. Westbound during prohibited hours (No Right 7pm - 7am & Anytime on Weekend). Offense was on a Sunday morning at 9 am. As others have mentioned about this particular sign, it is definitely a trap intersection and I did not see the part about no turning on the weekend until after I was into the turn, when I saw the officer at the same time waving me over. I would have pulled out of the turn before he waved me down but it would have looked sketchy and more dangerous and didn't want to appear to be "fleeing". I filed for disclosure as soon as I got my trial notice (1 month ago) and just received the package yesterday. My trial is next Weds and the disclosure is almost totally illegible. For what its worth, the parts of the officers notes that are understandable include some major errors. He noted that my truck is Gold (it is actually silver) and that the date was a Saturday (it was a Sunday). In a trial, can I use these errors to discredit the officer and perhaps raise a doubt to whether he actually saw my car make the prohibited turn? Left turns are legal onto this street, so it is "possible" that he may have seen a different car turning right and in fact I arrived on that particular street from a different direction. I faxed in an additional request for disclosure as soon I got picked this up, requesting that the notes be typed as they are most unreadable. Also it seems that they schedule the dates very soon now, with not enough time to prepare a defense after receiving disclosure, and/or even time to request anything additional. I have attached a copy of the disclosure. If anyone can help me with a defense or how I can use the officers notes in my favour that would be a great help! If they will offer me a bylaw ticket with no conviction on driving record I will plead guilty, otherwise I will take it to trial with nothing to lose. Don't care about the fine, only the points/conviction. Thanks in advance.
Hi,
I received a ticket in July for right-turn onto St Pauls Square from Bloor St. Westbound during prohibited hours (No Right 7pm - 7am & Anytime on Weekend). Offense was on a Sunday morning at 9 am.
As others have mentioned about this particular sign, it is definitely a trap intersection and I did not see the part about no turning on the weekend until after I was into the turn, when I saw the officer at the same time waving me over. I would have pulled out of the turn before he waved me down but it would have looked sketchy and more dangerous and didn't want to appear to be "fleeing".
I filed for disclosure as soon as I got my trial notice (1 month ago) and just received the package yesterday. My trial is next Weds and the disclosure is almost totally illegible. For what its worth, the parts of the officers notes that are understandable include some major errors. He noted that my truck is Gold (it is actually silver) and that the date was a Saturday (it was a Sunday). In a trial, can I use these errors to discredit the officer and perhaps raise a doubt to whether he actually saw my car make the prohibited turn? Left turns are legal onto this street, so it is "possible" that he may have seen a different car turning right and in fact I arrived on that particular street from a different direction.
I faxed in an additional request for disclosure as soon I got picked this up, requesting that the notes be typed as they are most unreadable. Also it seems that they schedule the dates very soon now, with not enough time to prepare a defense after receiving disclosure, and/or even time to request anything additional.
I have attached a copy of the disclosure.
If anyone can help me with a defense or how I can use the officers notes in my favour that would be a great help!
If they will offer me a bylaw ticket with no conviction on driving record I will plead guilty, otherwise I will take it to trial with nothing to lose. Don't care about the fine, only the points/conviction.
Thanks in advance.
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- The difference between silver and gold isn't going to hammer any point you're trying to make. Most "gold" cars are closer to silver than actual gold. It's not exactly black vs red. - The Saturday disclosure page is probably from Saturday. If an officer is going to pull people over for an extended period of time for the same offense, he'll just write that portion once instead of doing it every time he writes a ticket. Maybe he was there for the weekend mornings, but didn't write a new one for Sunday.
contradan wrote:
For what its worth, the parts of the officers notes that are understandable include some major errors. He noted that my truck is Gold (it is actually silver) and that the date was a Saturday (it was a Sunday). In a trial, can I use these errors to discredit the officer and perhaps raise a doubt to whether he actually saw my car make the prohibited turn?
- The difference between silver and gold isn't going to hammer any point you're trying to make. Most "gold" cars are closer to silver than actual gold. It's not exactly black vs red.
- The Saturday disclosure page is probably from Saturday. If an officer is going to pull people over for an extended period of time for the same offense, he'll just write that portion once instead of doing it every time he writes a ticket. Maybe he was there for the weekend mornings, but didn't write a new one for Sunday.
Update - Trial was today, requested adjournment due to illegible disclosure notes and received a new trial date for Jan. The court refused to issue typed notes, but had the officer sit down with me and clarify them. The JP said that this charge (HTA 182-2 - Disobey Sign) is an absolute liability charge... from what I read online it is a strict liability. Can anyone confirm this or direct me where I can find an official reference for this charge? Thanks
Update - Trial was today, requested adjournment due to illegible disclosure notes and received a new trial date for Jan.
The court refused to issue typed notes, but had the officer sit down with me and clarify them.
The JP said that this charge (HTA 182-2 - Disobey Sign) is an absolute liability charge... from what I read online it is a strict liability. Can anyone confirm this or direct me where I can find an official reference for this charge?
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