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Fail to Obey Stop sign: first ticket, help?
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:20 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:55 am
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Brief:
August 28, 2011. Driving westbound towards an intersection that I MUST pass through every time I leave or come home. 4 Way stop sign. I stopped momentarily, before the white line, before proceeding again. I did not see the police officer hiding behind some bushes. He gave me a 110$ ticket for failing to obey stop sign. When we came to my window, I told him "I thought I stopped" and he was like "no you didn't. go to court if you want."

What I did:
I, being a 17 year old G2 licensed driver, got my first ticket ever, have no experience at all. I went to the courthouse and requested for a First Attendance meeting now (I know i shouldn't have). After 3 weeks, they scheduled me a First Attendance meeting for February 2nd, 2012.. Following TICKETCOMBAT, I requested full disclosure with their copy and paste cut out form.
On January 6, 2012 I finally received the officer's notes via mail. All I received was one "ticket" sized page, barely legible. From what I can understand, he noted that:
1. he was 20m away from the sign around the corner
2. he had a clear sight (which was a lie, because I have photo evidence to prove there was a shrub that could have obscured the view of my black sedan.
3. "solo vehicle - did not slow, did not stop - proceeded w/b through i/s APP 30-35km/h.

So it seems to me, although I do show evidence against what he wrote, it won't be as strong as the police officer's word. I believe If I fought the ticket straight on with evidence, I would still lose, seeing that I am a 17 year old male, and it was a bright sunny summer afternoon (they might be prejudiced).

A) What options do I have?
I do not have a set trial date yet. I read that if I just skip the First attendance meeting, I can get one scheduled automatically. The risk is that, if i want to schedule for an 11b, I'm scared that the Crown may bring up notion that I used the First attendance to prolong the trial date, voiding the 11b motion.
B) When does the 11b timer start?
from the time I got the ticket, or the first attendance meeting?
C) What is the correct dialogue / order of which I should motion for certain things like 11b, or when to present evidence?
The points I have at my disposal (not guaranteeing that all are extremely strong):
1) Illegible disclosure: Could not make a full defence.
2) Stopped momentarily before white line. Driving instructor taught me to stop before the white line passes field of vision under the car hood. [photographic evidence to show where I stopped]
3) From the police vehicle’s position (alleged 20m away from the stop sign), the surrounding shrubbery and fencing obscured the officer’s view. Shadows casted would camouflage the black Mercedes Benz I was driving. [photographic evidence]
4) “Approximately 30-35 km/h” cannot be discerned by the human eye during acceleration from a complete stop.
5) I have lived in this neighbourhood since I was three years old and I am fully aware that this intersection is frequently monitored by traffic enforcement. I cross this intersection every single time I leave or come home.


If I do go to the First attendance meeting, should I just request a deal where I pay with no conviction (i dont want insurance rates to go up)?. Or just schedule a trial date instead of letting it be automatic.

Thank you so much,
Gary


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Re: Fail to Obey Stop sign: first ticket, help?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:36 pm 
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Sorry for double post:
Would it be possible to plea bargain to reduce the offence from "Disobey stop sign HTA 136(1)(A)" --> "disobey official sign" under Metro Toronto by-law 32-92 . My case happened in Mississauga.


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Re: Fail to Obey Stop sign: first ticket, help?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 2:10 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2011 11:31 am
Posts: 684
Last I checked, Mississauga isn't covered by Metropolitan Toronto Bylaws. You may have to check for something similar in Peel Region.


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Re: Fail to Obey Stop sign: first ticket, help?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:29 pm 
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Oh ok, I'll look into that more. What do you think would be my best option now, regarding the First Attendance meeting?


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Re: Fail to Obey Stop sign: first ticket, help?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 1:19 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 5:19 pm
Posts: 6
Hi Gary. while I was searching (intensively) about the appeal for red light.
I found this http://www.ticketcombat.com/stopsign/stopsign.php. it's very good.

* EDITED BY FORUM


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Re: Fail to Obey Stop sign: first ticket, help?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 5:19 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2011 11:31 am
Posts: 684
Mayday might want to edit the last sentence of the above post as it certainly doesn't offer any assistance to the original post.


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Re: Fail to Obey Stop sign: first ticket, help?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 6:34 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 8:08 pm
Posts: 550
garyluk wrote:
B) When does the 11b timer start?
from the time I got the ticket, or the first attendance meeting?
a good question

during my trial on Dec 2011 the JP ruled that the date i filed my tickets at the courts was the day i formed my intentions to go to trial, and therefore that's when the 11b clock starts, and the first attendance meeting was merely part of the trial process

i'm not sure if there are set guidelines w.r.t. first attendance meetings, it might solely be at the discretion of the sitting JP

unfortunately the crown will definitely try to start the clock from the first attendance


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