Failure to pull over

Hi. I would appreciate some feedback on this ticket. I recieved a ticket for failure to pull over for an emergency vehicle. During an icy, winter storm, I saw that I was approaching an accident up ahead on the shoulder. As I was already doing 70 in a 100km one, I still knew that I had to get into the left lane. As I was approaching the point I felt that I had to change lanes I saw in my rear view mirror an ambulance coming up behind me in the left lane. This basically had me boxed in. Accident on shoulder, ambulance in the left lane, me in the middle. So my approacrh was to slow down to 40, pass the accident and when the amulance was near take my foot of of the gas pedal and pulling over about 2 feet not much but there were no visible lines. I felt stopping with the icy road conditions was too dangerous. I could have either skidded into the accident, wiped out in the middle of the highway with the ambulace hitting me, or myself going off the shoulder into the ditch. The officers notes state that the ambulance had to go left of me almost going into the ditch to do so. This was not true. He was always in the left lane. The notes also state he was assisitng a car out of the ditch. Also not true. The car was already out of the ditch and on the shoulder.

What section did he charge you under?

joe comp wrote:

. The notes also state he was assisitng a car out of the ditch. Also not true. The car was already out of the ditch and on the shoulder.

That is true...the vehicle went into ditch, police arrived, assisted by providing traffic control....and until the tow/car are gone down the road...its one and the same reason for being there.

I was cited under 159 (1)(A). I'm just wondering if this is at all winnable in peoples opinion.

Well, you did commit the offence, but I don't believe it's an absolute liability offence. That means if you can honestly show you failed to act because you felt pulling over would cause an accident, you have a possible defence.

Can't really give you odds of success, because that depends on the Crown's evidence and how well everyone presents their case.

I guess what it is is that I'm really worried and just trying to get some idea of the outcome. I did technically commit the offence, but I thought that what I did was honestly the safest route. All of this happened within a 30 second time frame which I felt was not enough time to try and stop under the prevailing severe weather conditions.

Three demerit points, fine, no possibility of jail or licence suspension (that is assuming that you do not have a whole pile of convictions) would be the outcome. Probable insurance hike as well.

So the officer was charging you for failing to pull over and stop for the ambulance. I guess if you can articulate that you were UNABLE to stop but cleared the way as best you could, you may have a chance. Don't know if that will be accepted as a reasonable explanation, though.

Ok I see. Im very confused then as to what was expected in that situation. I honestly felt that with everything happening so fast that to try and stop was impossible. I didn't want to risk spinning out into the accident on the shoulder, or the ambulance or myself into the ditch. What should I have done better? (not a rhetorical question)

Depends on the rearward visibility and the speed of the ambulance. If you can present a reasonable argument that you saw the ambulance approaching very quickly, the visibility was poor so you only saw it at the last second, then you began slowing down to clear the way and were in the process of attempting to stop, it may work. I can't guarantee that it will work in court, though. By your own admission, you stated that you were not attempting to stop.

You will only skid or spin out if you slam on the brakes or make some other abrupt manoeuvre. Does your car have ABS?

Yes my car does have ABS. But ABS doesn't work on ice. I went throught 2 stops signs and a red light on the way to the highyway. I don't have distances, only times. By the time I entered the highway, I had approx. 30 seconds until I reached the left shoulder accident. I was intently looking at that accident to see what might happen ie carss pulling out tow truck hooking up car etc. By about 15 seconds is when I wanted to pull over into the left lane, I saw an abulance in my rear view mirror was behind me. Like a line drive baseball coming at ones head, I figured the option that I ultimately chose was the safest one; nudge left to avoid right shoulder accident nudge right to let abmulance pass with foot off of accelarator as to not have any adverse control over vehicle and slow the car down.

joe comp wrote:

But ABS doesn't work on ice. .

Yes ABS does work on ice, snow etc....can hear it activate with a "griding" type noise and feel the brake pedal pulsate also.

An anti-lock braking system (ABS) is a safety system that allows the wheels on a motor vehicle to continue interacting tractively with the road surface as directed by driver steering inputs while braking, preventing the wheels from locking up (that is, ceasing rotation) and therefore avoiding skidding.

An ABS generally offers improved vehicle control and decreases stopping distances on dry and slippery surfaces for many drivers; however, on loose surfaces like gravel or snow-covered pavement, an ABS can slightly increase braking distance, although the increase in distance, it is compensated by the improved control of the vehicle

joe comp wrote:

But ABS doesn't work on ice

Where did you hear that? That is completely incorrect. ABS is designed SPECIFICALLY to help you steer and stop in slippery and icy conditions. Even if you absolutely stood on your brakes, you would have remained in control of your vehicle unless you steered wildly. Ask any advanced driving instructor and they will tell you the same thing.

Based on the information you provided, I'd suggest taking a plea-bargain to a lesser charge, if the Prosecutor offers it.

Hi. I'm not trying to be a smart aleck by stating this, but I slid througth two stop signs and and half way through an intersection on a red light during that night. I felt because of that and having slid off of the road 3 times (once spinning around in circles) during snow storms that attempting a stop "might" not be the smartest thing. "My attempt" to stop was to slow down and take my foot off of the accelerator. Since my first attendence, now I'm being being told that the deal I was offered, I should have accepted; 240 and an obstructing traffic charge. I guess I feel that I'm innocent and that Im realizing I have to take something as punishment. Welcome to the game of life!! Ok I made a mistake, must I take 2 days off of work unpaid, then lose and pay 500 dollars and then have a 6x's insurance rate hike?! On a side note In Chatham Kent County I hear no deals what so ever on this so..... I do thank you for your input!!

joe comp wrote:

I'm not trying to be a smart aleck by stating this, but I slid througth two stop signs and and half way through an intersection on a red light during that night.

That information, if anything, strengthens the Crown's case against you. It demonstrates you were well aware of the poor road conditions, yet were still driving in a manner and speed that would not allow you to safely pull over and/or come to a full stop if required. You're always responsible for driving in a manner that allows you to keep full control of your vehicle, regardless of the road and weather conditions.

By your own admissions, during a winter ice storm, after having been unable to stop for 3 separate traffic controls, you continued driving at 70 km/hr. You also admit that after seeing the ambulance, during a 30 second period of time, you could not stop or pull over, and were only able to slow your car by 30 km/hr. If this is the case, I really don't think you can argue due diligence. Yes, you were driving below the speed limit, but clearly still too fast for the conditions.

The first stop sign I was doing the speed limit and slid a quarter through it. The second stop sign the street had a 40 km speed limit and I was doing 30km because of first slide, and slid a quarter way through it. The red light scenario had me doing 40 on a 50km street and I still slid. It was icy people (Dec 17th). You have to remember there were people on the highway behind me, couple this with a panic situation, and racing mind to make the right decision in a short period of time I chose what I did.

I highly disagree about your statement of my lack of due diligence. What about the 4 cars that were behind me about 7 car lengths back, travelling faster than I was? What about none of the cars who pulled over to the side and stopped like I was told on this board to have done that never did as the office pursued me?

What happened with your charge? Your last post was almost 3 years ago so I'm assuming it's been dealt with in Court.

Was just looking at this and noticed a response years later wondering what happened to me. I went to court and lost. The cop lied about a couple of facts so.....I was told by to JP that I must come to a complete stop. Even though there were cars several feet behind me and literally snow drifts for a shoulder and I was in between 2 emergency vehicles. Actually all these years later I'm still (childishly? )bitter. Well now I do come to a complete stop like I was instructed to. I've cut off several vehicles including a transport truck one time to get over and stop. If they don't make a move to get over I sure as heck do regardless.

Also in response to ABS

Under severe conditions when the entire road is covered with ice, all four wheels may lock simultaneously. Unless at least one wheel is turning, the ABS will react as if the vehicle has stopped. When this occurs, the ABS is defeated, and the driver will need to go back to the pumping technique

I assume this charge is for not pulling over for the ambulance? And the officer that wrote the ticket was on the side of the road with the other vehicle?

Remember, NEVER lie on the stand, but if your testimony is along the lines that by the time you saw the ambulance you did not feel you could pull over because of the other vehicle and police car that were on the side of the road, then that might be sufficient to win. I would however NOT mention all those other intersections you slid thru earlier though.

Do you have disclosure yet? Can you post officers notes?

jsherk wrote:

Do you have disclosure yet? Can you post officers notes?

joe comp wrote:

I went to court and lost.

This charge is from 5 years ago and he's already been convicted.

Oh sorry, yes I see that now... did not read the earlier posts!

Read the section again - it states 'if safe to do so...'

Seems to me, you have a pretty good defence.

The speed limit is not the speed limit in all circumstances. I attended a 4x4 in a ditch and he said it wasn't his fault because the roads were bad and he wasn't speeding. I brought his attention to the fact that I'd managed to reach him a rear wheel drive Crown Vic and that although the speed limit was 80, that wasn't a safe speed that day. He looked confused but took the ticket.