Picked UP disclosure for trial..Improper ?

bilal388
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Picked UP disclosure for trial..Improper ?

Unread post by bilal388 on

So Just picked up my disclosure for a trial next Wednesday as i was busy with exams and all. So what i got was a copy of the ticket and some BS chicken written notes. I cant read **** there.I have uploaded three files.

My disclosure request (what i asked for)
The ticket copy that i got
and the Notes that i got(BTW the color of the car is wrong)

LINK - EDITED OUT - by HTA Moderator HB (no officer name or badge number permitted - remove as you did for your personal info & repost )

LINK UPDATED and re-inserted, HTA Moderator HB
http://img12.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=disclosures.jpg

Heres the album of three pictures i scanned in HIGH RES.So what you see is what i see. Just click the picture and zoom

I literally didn't get anything i asked for.No make or model,no manual,the notes weren't even typed.
Even though i am bias i think this disclosure is pretty inadequate.Hence is it possible i can get a delay of hearing to a further date?
Could someone please advise me my best course of action right now

I also got some feedback from RFD and people there said that i should look for a stay of proceeding on the grounds of improper disclosure or at least get an adjournment.

Thanks


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Simon Borys
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Unread post by Simon Borys on

You're not likely to get a stay just because you didn't get what you asked for the first time. If you are seeking further disclosure, you'll likely get an adjournment.

Also, with regards to your disclosure request, you probably got all of the officer's notes (that is the front and back of the ticket). There are probably not any witness statements to get. You're not automatically going to get a typed copy of the notes unless you get the handwritten ones first and can't read them. Then you can make a further request for a typed copy. "Training record specific to the laser unit" doesn't mean anything. Did you mean to ask for the officer's training record (you're not going to get that - he's just going to testify that he was qualified to operate the unit) or did you mean to ask for the maintenance and calibration records of the unit (you may get that, but you may be asked why you want it). You will probably get the testing procedure if you ask, but you won't necessarily get the whole manual, so for those two items you could ask again. The officer probably did not make any notes of any statements made by you and that's why they're not included. The make, model and s/n are on the 1st 2 lines, but I admit I'm not exactly clear on which is which.

All in all it sounds like you got most of the info you request/is available. If you want further info you should make a 2nd request and specific exactly what you want and why and if you don't get it before court you can ask for an adjournment and get it on the record that inadequate disclosure is the reason (then it goes on the crown's clock if you're going to file an 11(b) motion later).
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bilal388
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Unread post by bilal388 on

Ya i knw most likely i will not get a stay so my goal is to get a adjournment on the grounds of improper disclosure. I cant ask them for additional right now as they will not have enough time to return it to me because the trial is on the 13 or should i file for it anyway? So most likely i will go there and ask the jp for adjourment


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Simon Borys
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Unread post by Simon Borys on

It probably doesn't really matter when you ask for it, except that if you delay unnecessarily, it may be counted against you in an 11(b) calculation. My opinion is that it would look better if you showed up to court saying that you've already made a 2nd request for outstanding materials, rather than showing up and saying, "well, they sent me stuff but it was incomplete and no, I didn't notify them of that yet".
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Radar Identified
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Unread post by Radar Identified on

The only thing missing from the disclosure request that would result in a stay of proceedings is the relevant portions of the radar/lidar manual.

Maybe I read the coding incorrectly, but I didn't see an indication that the officer stopped your vehicle "without sight lost" or coding/letters to that effect.
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hwybear
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Unread post by hwybear on

LINK - EDITED OUT on first post
(no officer name or badge number permitted - remove as you did for your personal info & repost )

HTA Moderator
HB
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca


bilal388
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Unread post by bilal388 on

http://img12.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=disclosures.jpg (mod could you put this link in my intial post)

Heres the link uploaded again

So basically my decision is to file for additional disclosure tomorrow and at the trial ask for adjournment on the grounds of improper disclosure. But my question is should i ask for a stay for which if rejected ill get an adjournment or should i just go for the adjournment right away.


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Unread post by hwybear on

Link updated in orginal post
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Simon Borys
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Unread post by Simon Borys on

You don't just ask for a stay, you have to prepare and file a motion.
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Unread post by fredfred on

Simon Borys wrote:You're not likely to get a stay just because you didn't get what you asked for the first time. If you are seeking further disclosure, you'll likely get an adjournment.
If you ask for a stay from the JP when you are called up to plead and you get an adjournment, your new court date will most likely be one on that JP's next scheduled court dates and not the date that the officer has his/her cases scheduled for (maybe adds another 2 to 4 months). That would reduce the chance of the officer showing up as they would most likely only have one case on that date. The officer may like the overtime but his/her superior may decide it's not cost effective to pay this just to convict one speeding ticket (they are trying to manage their budgets like everyone else). The old "the cop didn't show up" doesn't happen as much as it used to because they have gotten smart and book all the officers appearances on a single day making it more cost effective for the police. This works against that strategy.


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Unread post by fredfred on

Radar Identified wrote:Maybe I read the coding incorrectly, but I didn't see an indication that the officer stopped your vehicle "without sight lost" or coding/letters to that effect.
Is this in reference to the tracking history? Is it mandatory that something about tracking history be recorded in the officer's notes?


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Unread post by diehard on

Simon Borys wrote:You don't just ask for a stay, you have to prepare and file a motion.
Can OP ask JP to quash the case?

Or is a motion also needed for that?


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Unread post by fredfred on

bilal388 wrote:Ya i knw most likely i will not get a stay so my goal is to get a adjournment on the grounds of improper disclosure. I cant ask them for additional right now as they will not have enough time to return it to me because the trial is on the 13 or should i file for it anyway? So most likely i will go there and ask the jp for adjourment
I would still ask for a stay and not an adjournment based on the fact that you didn't get full disclosure. You never know, but you might get it. Otherwise, if the JP determines that the prosecutor did not do their job by providing full disclosure and you erred by either not asking again for it or by not filing a proper motion ahead of the court date, an adjournment is seen as a compromise (ie. neither you or the prosecutor gets what you asked for). It may help if you end up filing an 11B later allowing you to claim some or all of the delay was caused by the prosecutor not providing full disclosure when requested.

Actually, instead of asking for a stay I asked for a "dismissal" which I believe is not the proper term but tells the JP you do not have a lot of knowledge in the law and therefore he/she needs to help you out. The JP seems to give the most amount of help to the least knowledgeable plaintiffs so at this point you don't want to appear too smart.


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Unread post by hwybear on

fredfred wrote:If you ask for a stay from the JP when you are called up to plead and you get an adjournment, your new court date will most likely be one on that JP's next scheduled court dates and not the date that the officer has his/her cases scheduled for (maybe adds another 2 to 4 months). That would reduce the chance of the officer showing up as they would most likely only have one case on that date. .
The courts don't care which JP is "sitting" for court. They schedule as per officer availability/schedule (courts also have each officer's booked vacation dates to avoid)
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Unread post by fredfred on

hwybear wrote:
fredfred wrote:If you ask for a stay from the JP when you are called up to plead and you get an adjournment, your new court date will most likely be one on that JP's next scheduled court dates and not the date that the officer has his/her cases scheduled for (maybe adds another 2 to 4 months). That would reduce the chance of the officer showing up as they would most likely only have one case on that date. .
The courts don't care which JP is "sitting" for court. They schedule as per officer availability/schedule (courts also have each officer's booked vacation dates to avoid)
That may be true if a motion is filed in advance, but when one is asked for in court and the JP decides to give an adjournment (after telling you that you should have given proper notice) he asks the court reporter what his next trial date is, and it is set for that one or the next one if the reporter says, "you have xx cases on that day and there is no room". The cop is sitting there and no one asks him/her whether it is a good date for them or whether this is their "special" day where all their cases are heard.






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