Improper disclosure – What would you do?

pinch
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Improper disclosure – What would you do?

by: pinch on
Mon Sep 28, 2009 7:37 pm

I got pinched for a stop sign offence back in the spring. I requested disclosure using the template provided on Ticket Combat's site. The package I received from the prosecutor did not include a copy of the municipal by-law for that stop sign. Since my court date is one month away, I thought I should get my request to stay the proceeding ready, but I think I might have goofed my disclosure request – I did not ask for a clarification of the charge. Instead, there is just a request for all information that is not being disclosed ( I just downloaded the template, signed it, and sent it off. I never thought to alter it for my specific case)

So, should I request a stay anyway, or should I go to court and hope that they do not present me with the by-law during trial? If I request a stay, I'm afraid it might be declined and that will tip off the prosecutor that they should have a copy of the by-law ready for my court date and then use it against me at the last minute.


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by: Frozenover on
Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:07 am

You have the time, so make the adjustment to your disclosure request and send it off.

I think the odds are in your favour that you will receive a very similiar package to your first request. This should put you in a stronger position to get a Stay for Non-Disclosure.


pinch
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by: pinch on
Fri Oct 02, 2009 5:25 pm

OK, if this did end up going to trial, can the crown introduce evidence at trial that was not included in disclosure? Like introducing the by-law at the last minute?


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by: OTTLegal on
Sat Oct 03, 2009 9:57 pm

The court doesnt have to provide to you a copy of the bylaw law or regulation for a stop sign ticket prior to court, Its listed in the Highway traffic act section 136. Not having this information will not get your case dropped.

Even if you have the disclosure, usually for this type of case, disclosure doesn't give you the information you need to win the charge.

When you represent yourself for this type of charge you need to know what the "Ontario Regulations" say about signs,

If you have never had a conducted a trial before you are at a disadvantage at court, going against a prosecutor who runs trial after trial every day, and a police officer who has been in court maybe hundreds of time...

Stop sign trials, and many trials in general are won on legal technicalities, and if you dont know what they are your going to get convicted...
Chris Conway
Retired Toronto Traffic Officer, Hit & Run Squad Detective,
Breathalyzer Tech, Radar/Highway Patrol
Licenced Paralegal


pinch
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by: pinch on
Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:37 am

Well I'm confused then. I've read a number of posts here that say the crown must provide a municipal bylaw that authorized the placement of the stop sign. Otherwise, how can the sign be legal? I'm searching CanLii, but I haven't found anything yet. I'll let everyone know how it turns out in court.


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screwed-by-guys_in-blue
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by: screwed-by-guys_in-blue on
Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:55 pm

OTTLegal wrote:The court doesnt have to provide to you a copy of the bylaw law or regulation for a stop sign ticket prior to court, Its listed in the Highway traffic act section 136. Not having this information will not get your case dropped.

Even if you have the disclosure, usually for this type of case, disclosure doesn't give you the information you need to win the charge.

When you represent yourself for this type of charge you need to know what the "Ontario Regulations" say about signs,

If you have never had a conducted a trial before you are at a disadvantage at court, going against a prosecutor who runs trial after trial every day, and a police officer who has been in court maybe hundreds of time...

Stop sign trials, and many trials in general are won on legal technicalities, and if you dont know what they are your going to get convicted...
Well now I too am confused??!! I was to understand as I too have read a number of posts here, that say the crown must provide a municipal bylaw that authorized the placement of the stop sign. Otherwise, how can the sign be legal?

Does this also apply to a no straight throughway or No Left/Right Turn Sign?
Am I not to expect the bylaw for these signs in my disclosure request 15 days prior to the trial date? and If I don't get this bylaw authorizing the placement of this english only sign? Am I going to be convicted also?
I've always lived by the rules of Nature. Its the other ones you need to Be Aware of..


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racer
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by: racer on
Mon Dec 21, 2009 10:28 pm

It has been shown here that no copy of by-law leads to a dismissed ticket. Don't listen to ottlegal here.
"The more laws, the less justice" - Marcus Tullius Cicero
"The hardest thing to explain is the obvious"

www.OHTA.ca & www.OntarioHighwayTrafficAct.com


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