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82 in a 60 - While riding in a group of motorcycles
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:54 pm 
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Hi All

Feeling slightly dumb as of last week because I got ticketed heading out the west side of Guelph for doing 82 in a 60. I was riding at the back of a group of three motorcycles. We had just turned right out of a parking lot and I guess I took a little longer to look left and right because the other two got away from me a bit, seems I was a little to enthusiastic about catching up. The radar trap was setup just short of where Woodlawn road turns into an 80 zone. I was paying more attention to the traffic around me than I was to my speedometer so I don't know what it was reading at the time, but I didn't feel like I was going faster than everyone else. But I suppose based on the lineup of cars being processed at the radar trap that probably doesn't say much. They were really raking in the offenders that day..

The officer was quite respectful and didn't give me a hard time (quite friendly in fact) but he informed me that I got pulled over because I was going slightly faster than my friends who he claimed were only doing 78km/h, and that he would have liked to give me a reduction but because I had a previous conviction for speeding that it was against policy.

Anyhow, this'll be my second speeding ticket, the previous one was an out of province ticket for the same charge, 16-29km/h over zone speed, so I'm concerned about my insurance going up and trying to decide if it's worth fighting. I've got a few vehicles on my insurance policy, some for my semi-retired parents who I'm helping out a bit, so if a conviction is unavoidable I'd prefer to have to suffer the monetary punishment myself than have to cut them off.....

The ticket seems to be written up perfectly, no mistakes except for one that is probably non-consequential, the fine is 82.50$, but for 22 km/h over I would have expected a fine of 99$ ($4.50 for each km over), is my math wrong?

I'm thinking I'll get a trial date and request the disclosure, if it arrives and doesn't have any glaring errors, then I will likely submit a plea before the date.

I'm just looking for options here. I would pay more than twice the set fine if I could have the charge withdrawn and send the money to a charitable donation, or to have it replaced with some alternative charge that doesn't result in an insurance jump. But I'm not sure how to approach either of these two things without implying guilt, and seems to me that coming to the crown with an offer like that would leave him thinking "but why would I bother if it's clear you can't win?"

Anyhow, all thoughts or input would be greatly appreciated.


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Re: 82 in a 60 - While riding in a group of motorcycles
PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 12:39 am 
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Prosecutors will often still entertain plea deals when the feel they would likely win because a plea saves them the hassle of the trial and gives certainty in a conviction. Sometimes people plea a speeding charge down to disobey sign (the speed limit sign). I doubt that they will withdraw the ticket and allow you to make a charitable donation.

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Re: 82 in a 60 - While riding in a group of motorcycles
PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 12:20 pm 
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Thanks for the input Simon.

Sounds like a plea for disobey sign 182(2) would be my best option, although if i understand correctly my insurance company will still look at this as a minor conviction, so except for the 1 less demerit point it doesn't help me out a whole lot. All things considered it might just save everyone alot of hassle if I eat this one.


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Re: 82 in a 60 - While riding in a group of motorcycles
PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 7:56 pm 
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I've decided that the 15 days isn't really enough to think this one over, so I'm going for the trial option and once I get the disclosure I'll look it over and make my decision.

Something did occur to me though, and if I could get some input on it I'd be greatly indebted. When I turned right onto the road I was ticketed on the first 60km/h zone sign I saw was only about 80 meters before the officer. He was already in the road waving me down by the time I passed that sign and I was well below 60km/h at that point...is that useful to me in any way?

Would it be arguable that I hadn't entered the 60 zone he claims to have charged me in, or that if it was the previous zone that I would not have seen the sign because it was earlier on the stretch than where I had entered the roadway?
Unless there's some general rule that if the driver couldn't have seen the sign then the charge must be dropped then this problably isn't useful. I also have a feeling this argument might get shot down easily if I was cross examined, by questions along the lines of "well what kind of speed zone did you think you were in?" and "have you driven on this road before?".

The other detail being that we were pulling out of a parking lot, which means unless we were airdropped it wasn't the first time we were on that road, and doubtful that we missed the signs then.

Anyhow, any thoughts would be much appreciated.


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