70 km/h in 50 km/h - Cop was wrong...

jsherk
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Re: 70 km/h in 50 km/h - Cop was wrong...

by: jsherk on
Mon Jul 11, 2016 8:45 am

In Ontario, when in a 70 zone, you can go 70 right up to the point where the 50 BEGINS, at which point you need to be going 50.

In Ontario, when in a 50 zone you should go 50 right up to the point where the 70 BEGINS.

Although the signs are giving you warnings that a new speed will begin ahead, it is still not that new speed zone yet. The posted speed comes into effect at the BEGINS sign.
+++ This is not legal advice, only my opinion +++


argyll
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by: argyll on
Mon Jul 11, 2016 9:01 am

How is it a cash grab having signs that indicate what speed you should be going ? The warning signs are a courtesy to allow you to slow your car down to the new sped limit ahead which is in effect when you reach the sign.

A cash grab would be if there were no warning signs.
Former Ontario Police Officer. Advice will become less relevant as the time goes by !


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bobajob
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by: bobajob on
Mon Jul 11, 2016 12:33 pm

I was referring to the UK and there are NO warning signs it will just say 70 then 50
and they expect you to be doing that speed as soon as you car hits that sign
argyll wrote:How is it a cash grab having signs that indicate what speed you should be going ? The warning signs are a courtesy to allow you to slow your car down to the new sped limit ahead which is in effect when you reach the sign.

A cash grab would be if there were no warning signs.
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bobajob
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by: bobajob on
Mon Jul 11, 2016 1:03 pm

the 70-50, that's a big drop in speed

going the other way is not an issue
I can see somone getting copped decelerating from a 70-50;
unless it was obvious that they where, or ignored,or didnt see it

anyway txs for the explanation
IF in a 70 ( I usually have cruise control) when I see a 50 ahead, I'll switch off the cruise, which allows me to slow down and by the time I hit the 50 max
I'm doing 50,

I can see people going form 70 then slowing down at the 50 by braking harder, or just coasting by slowing down from 70-50
technically you could be not as slow as 50 and could get a ticket by an overzealous cop.

Whether there is any leeway I don't know

txs though
jsherk wrote:In Ontario, when in a 70 zone, you can go 70 right up to the point where the 50 BEGINS, at which point you need to be going 50.

In Ontario, when in a 50 zone you should go 50 right up to the point where the 70 BEGINS.

Although the signs are giving you warnings that a new speed will begin ahead, it is still not that new speed zone yet. The posted speed comes into effect at the BEGINS sign.
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* NO you cant touch your phone
* Speeding is speeding
* Challenge every ticket
* Impaired driving, you should be locked up UNDER the jail




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by: Parpookin52 on
Mon Jul 11, 2016 1:50 pm

@ jsherk - thank you

@OP - That's what I would have done too to avoid brake checking or getting rear ended by people. Once I saw the 50 km/h sign I would have slowed down or just stopped accelerating but look what happened. The police rather I brake check someone?

Also in my case you couldn't even see the 50 km/h sign at night, traffic was flying by going 60 km/h minimum, no signs up to the cop, car was accelerating and it was four lanes total. The cop didn't take any of this into consideration


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by: bend on
Tue Jul 12, 2016 12:25 am

Parpookin52 wrote:@OP - That's what I would have done too to avoid brake checking or getting rear ended by people. Once I saw the 50 km/h sign I would have slowed down or just stopped accelerating but look what happened. The police rather I brake check someone?
If someone behind you is travelling too close, it's not your responsibility to avoid the brake or keep on the accelerator. It's not a defense, although you're certainly not the first person to bring it up. Since you have more than one lane, it's a perfect opportunity to move over to the right lane and let them pass on the left.
Parpookin52 wrote:Also in my case you couldn't even see the 50 km/h sign at night, traffic was flying by going 60 km/h minimum, no signs up to the cop, car was accelerating and it was four lanes total. The cop didn't take any of this into consideration
Regulated signs are reflective. It's not a defense.

You've also been too preoccupied with everyone else. If everyone else is speeding, it's not your problem. You're in a perfect position to move over to the right and let everyone else pass on the left.

Forget about the fact that other people were speeding. It's irrelevant. You're also wishy washy when talking about signs. One second there were no signs and the next you can't see them because it's dark. Either way, there's a default limit. If you plan on fighting your ticket, it's probably best that you avoid everything you've mentioned so far. Especially the part about the officer targeting you because of the car you drive.

Speeding is an absolute liability offense. That means that (a) you were speeding; or (b) you were not speeding. Everything you've mentioned has been "I was speeding, but..." which means you're already guilty. If you're going to go down this route, you'd be better off taking a deal. Otherwise, you're going to have to start somewhere else.




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by: bobajob on
Tue Jul 12, 2016 8:22 am

looks like I'll be hitting the brakes then ;)
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* Challenge every ticket
* Impaired driving, you should be locked up UNDER the jail


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by: bend on
Tue Jul 12, 2016 2:35 pm

Parpookin52 wrote:^
Time to hire a team and shut up :]
You don't have to necessarily hire anybody. Depending on your current insurance situation, it may not even be worth it. You may have not much to lose anyways, so it's not a bad time to do it yourself. The debates and arguments you may have among your friends don't correlate to a courtroom. Your friends might understand driving with the flow, but that's not something you bring into a courtroom.

If you are pleading not guilty to this speeding charge, you are essentially saying "At no point did I ever exceed the posted speed limit". So far, you have not done that. In the eyes of the court, you've provided excuses for going 70km. You'd already be guilty right off the bat, proven your own guilt, and wasted all this time for nothing.

There are people everyday who go into a courtroom and read off the same points you're making here. You're definitely not alone, but these people would have been better off taking a plea deal instead. That's not me advising you to take a deal, but if you go down the route you're currently going with traffic flow and not being able to see signs in the dark, they are going to find you guilty.




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by: bend on
Wed Jul 13, 2016 4:02 am

Obviously, you can't lie in a courtroom or you'd be in more trouble than you're currently in. It's also not up to you to prove your own guilt, although you're certainly free to do so.


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by: jsherk on
Wed Jul 13, 2016 10:42 am

NEVER lie to police and NEVER lie when you are on the witness stand in the court room.

You have the right NOT to testify against yourself, so you are better off NOT giving your side of the story.

You need to instead beat the ticket by cross-examining the officer on their use and training on the device, and bring reasonable doubt to what they said.
+++ This is not legal advice, only my opinion +++


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by: rank on
Thu Jul 14, 2016 11:52 pm

I'm still unclear if you were in a posted 50 zone. You were in a posted 60 then you got a ticket for doing 70 in a 50. Did you fail to see or heed a 50 begins sign?

As for you accelerating to 70 from a stop. I would begin by searching the internet for performance tests on your car to see how quickly the tests say it accelerates. Then I would go back to the scene and measure the distance over which you allegedly accelerated to 70. Then I would take dash video to possibly show that the sign was not readily visible. Signs are supposed to be reflective ... perhaps this one was not? Perhaps it was blocked from view? I would also measure the position of the sign to make sure complies with the rules.

If you are telling us the truth, I think you are saying you thought you were in a 60 because you didn't see the 50 sign. AND you dispute that you were doing 70...more like 65? If this is true, you need to show the JP that the sign is not visible and your car is gutless. It's very possible the sign is not reflective. I bet you win with that argument alone if you present it correctly.


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by: Observer135 on
Tue Jul 19, 2016 9:05 am

Reduction of speed is the easy one, once you see a reduced speed limit ahead you start slowing down so when your are parallel with that speed limit (50 for example) you are in fact travelling at that speed.
Acceleration would be the same for me, and I would simply ignore people honking, you can't let others push you around and force you to break the law and get a ticket.
At the end of the day, they are not the ones paying your insurance premium.
Cheers


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