I would like to know the power that a city of Ottawa cop has, while executing a stop on the 416, near Manotick. A city cop pulled me over for a licence plate light violation. He was friendly and efficient. He gave me two printed warnings for the plate light and lack of current insurance documentation. The notices both had a fine value ($), but $0.00 in the fine due section. Was he out of jurisdiction, or just a good guy? I was under the impression that municipal police have limited power on federal highways. Is this true?
I would like to know the power that a city of Ottawa cop has, while executing a stop on the 416, near Manotick. A city cop pulled me over for a licence plate light violation. He was friendly and efficient. He gave me two printed warnings for the plate light and lack of current insurance documentation. The notices both had a fine value ($), but $0.00 in the fine due section.
Was he out of jurisdiction, or just a good guy?
I was under the impression that municipal police have limited power on federal highways. Is this true?
He let you off with 2 warning tickets so in the end you really can't complain about anything at all. To my knowledge the 416 is not federal a highway but rather a provincial highway (I'm not even sure there are two separate categories so to be honest my useful input to this thread ended already). I had also thought the same as you though, that you could only be pulled over by the OPP in normal circumstances on a provincial highway if anybody could clarify this it would be nice.
He let you off with 2 warning tickets so in the end you really can't complain about anything at all. To my knowledge the 416 is not federal a highway but rather a provincial highway (I'm not even sure there are two separate categories so to be honest my useful input to this thread ended already). I had also thought the same as you though, that you could only be pulled over by the OPP in normal circumstances on a provincial highway if anybody could clarify this it would be nice.
If a police officer in Ontario, no matter which agency employs him or her, sees an offence anywhere in Ontario, the officer has full authority to issue a ticket, make an arrest, etc. An Ottawa Police officer could issue a ticket in Sudbury, a North Bay officer a ticket in Windsor, etc. York Regional Police regularly make traffic stops on the 404 and 407; Halton Regional Police make stops on the QEW and 403; Ottawa Police on the Queensway and 416, even though the OPP technically patrol those roads. "Jurisdiction" is a US thing, not here. Plenderzoosh is right. All highways are provincial or municipal, even the Trans-Canada is provincially run. This is why its number designation changes from province to province, being Highway 17/417 through Ontario, Autoroute 40 in Quebec, etc.
If a police officer in Ontario, no matter which agency employs him or her, sees an offence anywhere in Ontario, the officer has full authority to issue a ticket, make an arrest, etc. An Ottawa Police officer could issue a ticket in Sudbury, a North Bay officer a ticket in Windsor, etc. York Regional Police regularly make traffic stops on the 404 and 407; Halton Regional Police make stops on the QEW and 403; Ottawa Police on the Queensway and 416, even though the OPP technically patrol those roads. "Jurisdiction" is a US thing, not here.
Plenderzoosh is right. All highways are provincial or municipal, even the Trans-Canada is provincially run. This is why its number designation changes from province to province, being Highway 17/417 through Ontario, Autoroute 40 in Quebec, etc.
R.I answered this very well. In Ontario local police forces like Halton Regional, Peel, TPS, KW Police, yes they can arrest you on a 400 series highway. But this is not they're job to enforce it. Usually these police just use the roads to get somewhere and they do not "patrol them." But if you do something really stupid or dangerous and you catch they're eye they can and might give you a ticket. Usually just to keep it safe do you really have to pass an officer? It is usually just better to wait a few minutes until he is gone rather then to pass him and take a chance when he is right there!
R.I answered this very well.
In Ontario local police forces like Halton Regional, Peel, TPS, KW Police, yes they can arrest you on a 400 series highway.
But this is not they're job to enforce it.
Usually these police just use the roads to get somewhere and they do not "patrol them."
But if you do something really stupid or dangerous and you catch they're eye they can and might give you a ticket.
Usually just to keep it safe do you really have to pass an officer?
It is usually just better to wait a few minutes until he is gone rather then to pass him and take a chance when he is right there!
There are other police that people are not acccustomed to. (ie First Nations Police, CN Police, CP Police, Conservation Officers) they also have full authority. Some that might not have authority are University Police (but they might have been sworn in for a full city)... don't know that answer! Park Wardens have full authority within parks.
There are other police that people are not acccustomed to. (ie First Nations Police, CN Police, CP Police, Conservation Officers) they also have full authority.
Some that might not have authority are University Police (but they might have been sworn in for a full city)... don't know that answer!
Park Wardens have full authority within parks.
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca
How about on a military base? That would qualify as "federal land," right? Do regular police officers have authority on a military base, and do military police have authority across Ontario (or Canada)?
How about on a military base? That would qualify as "federal land," right? Do regular police officers have authority on a military base, and do military police have authority across Ontario (or Canada)?
Reviving old thread for further discussion. While the 416 is probably a provincial highway, there are several parkways in/near Ottawa that are truly federal roadways. For an unofficial list, see the ones marked with red maple leafs here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_roads_in_Ottawa According to RCMPs website, "RCMP . . . still has a Traffic Enforcement Unit responsible for policing federal roadways in the NCR." http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/ottawa/histor ... ue-eng.htm Here, I think "NCR" means National Capital Region, including Ottawa. While it is generally accepted that most police forces in Canada have "jurisdiction" to pass through and/or follow someone across intra-Canadian boundaries and to issue tickets therein, one important question raised by this thread remains unanswered: Are local police properly authorized to conduct fixed-position speed enforcement on federal roadways (and of course the corollary question: Should such tickets properly hold up in court)? A friend recently got ticketed by local Ottawa Police on such a federal roadway. It was a blatant speed trap, complete with four Ottawa Police chase cruisers and at least one LIDAR (laser) unit. Although the cruisers were all pulled off on a side street that probably isn't federal, the actual enforcement was being done by Ottawa Police officers positioned in the rightmost travel lane of the federal roadway. The worst part is that my friend had previously been told by RCMP what the enforcement threshold was, and she was actually complying with that. Your thoughts? Similarly, are RCMP or local Ottawa Police responsible for accident investigations on such federal roadways? If RCMP is rightfully responsible, but local police respond and issue tickets without any input from RCMP, are such tickets proper?
Reviving old thread for further discussion.
While the 416 is probably a provincial highway, there are several parkways in/near Ottawa that are truly federal roadways. For an unofficial list, see the ones marked with red maple leafs here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_roads_in_Ottawa
According to RCMPs website, "RCMP . . . still has a Traffic Enforcement Unit responsible for policing federal roadways in the NCR." http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/ottawa/histor ... ue-eng.htm Here, I think "NCR" means National Capital Region, including Ottawa.
While it is generally accepted that most police forces in Canada have "jurisdiction" to pass through and/or follow someone across intra-Canadian boundaries and to issue tickets therein, one important question raised by this thread remains unanswered: Are local police properly authorized to conduct fixed-position speed enforcement on federal roadways (and of course the corollary question: Should such tickets properly hold up in court)?
A friend recently got ticketed by local Ottawa Police on such a federal roadway. It was a blatant speed trap, complete with four Ottawa Police chase cruisers and at least one LIDAR (laser) unit. Although the cruisers were all pulled off on a side street that probably isn't federal, the actual enforcement was being done by Ottawa Police officers positioned in the rightmost travel lane of the federal roadway. The worst part is that my friend had previously been told by RCMP what the enforcement threshold was, and she was actually complying with that. Your thoughts?
Similarly, are RCMP or local Ottawa Police responsible for accident investigations on such federal roadways? If RCMP is rightfully responsible, but local police respond and issue tickets without any input from RCMP, are such tickets proper?
Ok one more time. Any police officer sworn in the province of Ontario can enforce the Ontario HTA on ANY highway/roadway ANYWHERE in Ontario. That means any police officer can set up a speed trap and do enforcement on the 400 series of highways should they want to. Just like the OPP can set up in Ottawa should they want to. A threshold is purely an individual officers discretion. It is not written in law or policy anywhere. When I am doing 416 enforcement( I have done it) the threshold for me is 20 over. Many may have more or less. OPS
Ok one more time. Any police officer sworn in the province of Ontario can enforce the Ontario HTA on ANY highway/roadway ANYWHERE in Ontario. That means any police officer can set up a speed trap and do enforcement on the 400 series of highways should they want to. Just like the OPP can set up in Ottawa should they want to.
A threshold is purely an individual officers discretion. It is not written in law or policy anywhere. When I am doing 416 enforcement( I have done it) the threshold for me is 20 over. Many may have more or less.
With a marked unit all police would stop no matter who patrols that particular road. If no police on scene it normally is called into police via 911 to the dispatch. The call taker will enter the road and maybe a cross road and it instantly tells what "police service" patrols that particular area. The entry on the computer screen is instantly sent to the proper dispatcher to send a cruiser(s) to the scene. - If it is for another police area (other than who received the call) the call is instantly transfered to that police service dispatch. -If EMS or Fire is required those services dispatch centres are instantly "patched" into the same line, so all 3 call takers of all services are knowing the same information instantly at the same time.
With a marked unit all police would stop no matter who patrols that particular road.
If no police on scene it normally is called into police via 911 to the dispatch. The call taker will enter the road and maybe a cross road and it instantly tells what "police service" patrols that particular area. The entry on the computer screen is instantly sent to the proper dispatcher to send a cruiser(s) to the scene.
- If it is for another police area (other than who received the call) the call is instantly transfered to that police service dispatch.
-If EMS or Fire is required those services dispatch centres are instantly "patched" into the same line, so all 3 call takers of all services are knowing the same information instantly at the same time.
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca
We used to do them for the RCMP after 2100Hrs on the parkways. I have done them on the 417 when I have stumbled upon minor ones near Vars and there are no OPP available. As for RCMP they now have taken over patrolling their roads 24 hours but we still do it when there is a major injury or death. I believe they are in the process of training collision investigators though. OPS
itb44 wrote:
Thanks for clarifying the enforcement issue. What about responsibility to respond for accident investigations on federal roadways?
We used to do them for the RCMP after 2100Hrs on the parkways. I have done them on the 417 when I have stumbled upon minor ones near Vars and there are no OPP available.
As for RCMP they now have taken over patrolling their roads 24 hours but we still do it when there is a major injury or death. I believe they are in the process of training collision investigators though.
Thanks all! Here's a follow-up scenario with one assumption as indicated: D1 and D2 are involved in a contested accident around 1600hrs on a federal roadway. D1 calls it into local police (we're assuming that if he'd called 911, RCMP would have responded), perhaps indicating that he's on a local side street adjacent to the federal roadway. D1 tells D2 not to call 911 because he's already called police. Local police officer responds to scene and issues ticket to D2 without any investigation of the true accident site. Is D2 within his rights to contact RCMP and request some sort of investigation, or must he now leave it all for court?
Thanks all! Here's a follow-up scenario with one assumption as indicated: D1 and D2 are involved in a contested accident around 1600hrs on a federal roadway. D1 calls it into local police (we're assuming that if he'd called 911, RCMP would have responded), perhaps indicating that he's on a local side street adjacent to the federal roadway. D1 tells D2 not to call 911 because he's already called police. Local police officer responds to scene and issues ticket to D2 without any investigation of the true accident site. Is D2 within his rights to contact RCMP and request some sort of investigation, or must he now leave it all for court?
No. If there was an issue with the investigation, it should be brought to the attention of the investigating agency. FYI, there is no obligation to attend the actual crash location. Unless there was some extenuating circumstance that has to be seen, most officers are quite familiar with local roadways. Look at how many accidents are now handled at police reporting centres with the officer never even leaving the building.
itb44 wrote:
Is D2 within his rights to contact RCMP and request some sort of investigation
No. If there was an issue with the investigation, it should be brought to the attention of the investigating agency.
FYI, there is no obligation to attend the actual crash location. Unless there was some extenuating circumstance that has to be seen, most officers are quite familiar with local roadways. Look at how many accidents are now handled at police reporting centres with the officer never even leaving the building.
Ok. Not sure what you are not understanding here. All police in Ontario can operate anywhere in Ontario period. You, or your friend had an accident and got charged. You or your friend do not get to police shop. Oh and FYI. Our cars have maps of the city on the computers. Theses maps have a drawn version(similar to google maps) or an ariel over head photo of the entire city. Ops
Ok. Not sure what you are not understanding here. All police in Ontario can operate anywhere in Ontario period. You, or your friend had an accident and got charged. You or your friend do not get to police shop.
Oh and FYI. Our cars have maps of the city on the computers. Theses maps have a drawn version(similar to google maps) or an ariel over head photo of the entire city.
It must be all this confusion over jurisdictions that lead to so many police chases. The bad guys must be under the mistaken impression that once they reach the city limits the poor municipal police have to pull over and stop. :D Seriously though, even if you get stopped on a Federal Highway here in Ontario for speeding, you're still being charged under the Provincial Highway Traffic Act, not some Federal act. While the horsemen do have certain authorities above and beyond other officers, it's nothing relevant to this forum.
It must be all this confusion over jurisdictions that lead to so many police chases. The bad guys must be under the mistaken impression that once they reach the city limits the poor municipal police have to pull over and stop.
Seriously though, even if you get stopped on a Federal Highway here in Ontario for speeding, you're still being charged under the Provincial Highway Traffic Act, not some Federal act. While the horsemen do have certain authorities above and beyond other officers, it's nothing relevant to this forum.
No. Yes. This is not the United States, which is royally bent out of shape over jurisdiction. Simply put, as long as A police officer from Ontario, doesn't matter what agency, stopped and investigated, and/or issued the ticket, it's a done deal. In fact, let's say an officer from the Windsor Police happened to be in Ottawa for whatever reason, and came upon the collision scene. The Windsor officer would be completely within his rights to investigate, file a report, and write tickets - and it's all legal. When you're sworn in, it's province-wide. The RCMP are not going to re-open an investigation that has already been done by the Ottawa Police.
itb44 wrote:
Is D2 within his rights to contact RCMP and request some sort of investigation
No.
itb44 wrote:
must he now leave it all for court
Yes.
This is not the United States, which is royally bent out of shape over jurisdiction. Simply put, as long as A police officer from Ontario, doesn't matter what agency, stopped and investigated, and/or issued the ticket, it's a done deal. In fact, let's say an officer from the Windsor Police happened to be in Ottawa for whatever reason, and came upon the collision scene. The Windsor officer would be completely within his rights to investigate, file a report, and write tickets - and it's all legal. When you're sworn in, it's province-wide.
The RCMP are not going to re-open an investigation that has already been done by the Ottawa Police.
* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca
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