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Advice regarding unspecified offence (90 in a 70)
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2016 7:00 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2016 6:43 pm
Posts: 3
Hello,

I am looking for some advice regarding a ticket I received today. I was clocked at going 90 in a 70 (20 km/hr over).
The cop said she would reduce my fine in half to 10 km/hr over since I was being cooperative.

The first unusual thing I noticed with the ticket is that my offense is unspecified. This is exactly what my ticket says:
"Did commit the offence of SPEEDING [MVACTUALSPEED] KM/H IN A [MVMAXIMUMSPEED] KM/H ZONE contrary to Highway Traffic Act HTA 128"

Is this considered a fatal flaw? Do I just ignore the ticket and it will be thrown out because of that?
If it isn't thrown out do I have any grounds to appeal?

Also the set fine was $37.50 and the total payable fine $52.50.
Is this site current? http://proffer.ca/how-your-traffic-tick ... d-ontario/

At 10 km/hr over, shouldn't the cost be $40.00? 10 km/hr * $2.50/km + $10 victim surcharge + $5 court cost?
Even at $52.50, at the same rate of $3.75/km...... $3.75/km * 10 km/hr over + $15 victim surcharge + $5 court cost, that is equal to $57.50.

Any help or advice?

Thanks a lot!


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Re: Advice regarding unspecified offence (90 in a 70)
PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2016 9:13 pm 
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Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 1:08 pm
Posts: 535
Location: Ontario
I would research on how to force a fatal error. Make sure you keep a copy of your ticket in a safe place.


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Re: Advice regarding unspecified offence (90 in a 70)
PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2016 10:07 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:18 pm
Posts: 1722
Congratulation! Yes this is a fatal error (the charge is not valid and is unknown)!

Do not do anything... do not respond to the ticket and do not tell the clerk/prosecutor there is an issue. Keep your copy of the ticket in a safe place, and make a color scan of both sides and email it to yourself as well.

By not responding, the ticket will go in front of a Justice of the Peace (JP). When the JP sees that there are no actual speeds on the ticket, they will quash it.

Now if for some reason this does not happen, and you get a notice of conviction, then you need to APPEAL it within 15 days (note that I said "APPEAL" and not "re-open") with the reasons that "the ticket has a fatal error on it with no valid charge". You then show up to the appeals trial and show the Judge your copy of the ticket and the Judge will dismiss the charge.

_________________
+++ This is not legal advice, only my opinion +++


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Re: Advice regarding unspecified offence (90 in a 70)
PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2016 10:54 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:49 pm
Posts: 2110
Location: Ontario
azide wrote:
Also the set fine was $37.50 and the total payable fine $52.50.
Is this site current? http://proffer.ca/how-your-traffic-tick ... d-ontario/

At 10 km/hr over, shouldn't the cost be $40.00? 10 km/hr * $2.50/km + $10 victim surcharge + $5 court cost?
Even at $52.50, at the same rate of $3.75/km...... $3.75/km * 10 km/hr over + $15 victim surcharge + $5 court cost, that is equal to $57.50.


The ticket would have been for 15 over with that fine. 15 over is a pretty common reduced speed on tickets since anything higher then that results in demerit points. Regardless, as others have said, you appear to have a fatal error.


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Re: Advice regarding unspecified offence (90 in a 70)
PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2016 1:55 am 
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Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2016 6:43 pm
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jsherk wrote:
Congratulation! Yes this is a fatal error (the charge is not valid and is unknown)!

Do not do anything... do not respond to the ticket and do not tell the clerk/prosecutor there is an issue. Keep your copy of the ticket in a safe place, and make a color scan of both sides and email it to yourself as well.

By not responding, the ticket will go in front of a Justice of the Peace (JP). When the JP sees that there are no actual speeds on the ticket, they will quash it.

Now if for some reason this does not happen, and you get a notice of conviction, then you need to APPEAL it within 15 days (note that I said "APPEAL" and not "re-open") with the reasons that "the ticket has a fatal error on it with no valid charge". You then show up to the appeals trial and show the Judge your copy of the ticket and the Judge will dismiss the charge.


So I would get a notice of conviction in the mail? Or do I need to follow up on the status of the ticket after 15 days with the court?

Thanks so much for your responses!


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Re: Advice regarding unspecified offence (90 in a 70)
PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2016 2:11 am 
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Joined: Sun Jun 22, 2008 3:21 am
Posts: 377
If the Justice of the Peace who examines past due tickets does his job correctly he should quash the ticket, in which case you won't hear anything from the court. If he misses the error and enters a default judgment against you then you SHOULD get a notice of conviction, however some times things get lost in the mail. Either way you should follow up with the court, so you know what is going on. You may have to follow up with them a couple of times as they often don't deal with past due tickets exactly at the 15 day mark. When I used this procedure back in 2011 for a red light ticket, it took the court 45 days to get around to dealing with my ticket.


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Re: Advice regarding unspecified offence (90 in a 70)
PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2016 9:54 am 
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Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:18 pm
Posts: 1722
You have 15 days to appeal a conviction from the time you find out about it.

I would wait 30 days and then if you hear nothing, call the Clerk at the court. If they don't know status wait another 30 days and call again.

_________________
+++ This is not legal advice, only my opinion +++


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Re: Advice regarding unspecified offence (90 in a 70)
PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2016 12:42 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2010 12:33 pm
Posts: 128
Just playing devils advocate here...

Can the officer correct her mistake before filing the ticket if she notices the error and remembers exactly what happened and who the driver was and what she had agreed to do for him/her?


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Re: Advice regarding unspecified offence (90 in a 70)
PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2016 5:44 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2010 3:30 am
Posts: 787
Surely the justice won't miss such a glaring error. I'd be very surprised if you heard anything about this again.

_________________
Former Ontario Police Officer. Advice will become less relevant as the time goes by !


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Re: Advice regarding unspecified offence (90 in a 70)
PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2016 6:32 pm 
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Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2016 6:43 pm
Posts: 3
awesome thanks for everyone's help! ill update how it goes


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Re: Advice regarding unspecified offence (90 in a 70)
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2016 10:48 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2015 10:20 am
Posts: 324
You have 30 days to appeal, not 15.
An officer cannot make corrections or amendments to a ticket once it has been issued.


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Re: Advice regarding unspecified offence (90 in a 70)
PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2016 8:25 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 02, 2013 11:07 am
Posts: 5
I am in a similar boat. No speed specified (speeding - km/h in a km/h zone) and was convicted (forced the "fatal error") I don't know if the JP just missed it, but has anyone been able to confirm that not having a written speed and limit constitutes a fatal error, or will I still be convicted of speeding, but not have to pay a fine? To be complete, the ticket was for 85 in a 70 with a reduced speed from 106, which is in the "code" section. Basically, I am wondering if appealing is worth it. Please advise and Thanks in advance!


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