I got this ticket in November of 2009 and requested a trial date. I haven't receiving any notification yet. It's been almost 10 months. So today I visited the court office and the lady searched the system. She says there's a date for the trial, end of December of 2010. That's going to be 13 months. I didn't sign anything, so officially I think I still haven't been notified. A few questions I'd like to ask you honorable members: 1) If I don't receive any notification by mail, can they proceed with the trial? 2) Can I start the 11(b) process right now, even though I haven't been notified? 3) May I ask for disclosure now even without being notified of trial date? Thank you very much.
I got this ticket in November of 2009 and requested a trial date.
I haven't receiving any notification yet. It's been almost 10 months.
So today I visited the court office and the lady searched the system.
She says there's a date for the trial, end of December of 2010.
That's going to be 13 months. I didn't sign anything, so officially I think I still haven't been notified.
A few questions I'd like to ask you honorable members:
1) If I don't receive any notification by mail, can they proceed with the trial?
2) Can I start the 11(b) process right now, even though I haven't been notified?
3) May I ask for disclosure now even without being notified of trial date?
1) By law, you have to be notified at least 7 days prior to your trial (forget the section in the POA that deals with that ... might actually be in one of its regulations actually). Of course that is total bogus, and is only justifiable for rescheduled trials after an adjournment, etc., after the disclosure obligation has been met. Section 5(2) of the POA (which will become s.5(5) at a later time) says: Notice of trial (2) Where an offence notice is received under subsection (1), the clerk of the court shall, as soon as is practicable, give notice to the defendant and prosecutor of the time and place of the trial. R.S.O. 1990, c. P.33, s. 5 (2). Surely, if they already have it in their system, then they should be letting you know at the same time ... that would be "as soon as is practicable". Otherwise those words, and that section, have no meaning. At least none of any force or effect, that is. If I were you, I would ask for an ICON printout for your case, and hopefully the date of trial would be on there. It might even have the date when the trial date was added to your case. You could then argue to the JP that the prosecution "sat" on this information instead of sending out a Notice of Trial "as soon as is practicable" to you, not in keeping with s. 5(2) of the POA. Perhaps they haven't settled on a final trial date yet, and are trying to work out availability with the officer, etc. But I would still ask for that ICON printout of your case. 2) But why would you want to? You just have to make sure that you submit your s.11(b) motion 15 days ahead of your trial date, and that you properly serve it on the prosecutor, and the Attorneys General of Ontario and Canada. You said it was the end of December? You'll have to watch out b/c I think holidays in that period could count against you in the s.11(b) time-of-serving reckoning, but if you submit it by the 3rd week of November, you'll have no problems. 3) Yes you may. I was caught out by this once, even though the clerk in the office expressly told me that I needed to know my trial date first (b/c there was a field on their standard Disclosure Request form that asks for it). A JP told me afterwards that I didn't need to have it, and to just assume that the prosecution will be going ahead with your case, Notice of Trial in hand or not, and to act accordingly. What is the offence, if I may ask? 13 months for a first trial date should guarantee a stay for all but a rare few HTA offences.
diehard wrote:
I got this ticket in November of 2009 and requested a trial date.
I haven't receiving any notification yet. It's been almost 10 months.
So today I visited the court office and the lady searched the system.
She says there's a date for the trial, end of December of 2010.
That's going to be 13 months. I didn't sign anything, so officially I think I still haven't been notified.
A few questions I'd like to ask you honorable members:
1) If I don't receive any notification by mail, can they proceed with the trial?
2) Can I start the 11(b) process right now, even though I haven't been notified?
3) May I ask for disclosure now even without being notified of trial date?
Thank you very much.
1) By law, you have to be notified at least 7 days prior to your trial (forget the section in the POA that deals with that ... might actually be in one of its regulations actually).
Of course that is total bogus, and is only justifiable for rescheduled trials after an adjournment, etc., after the disclosure obligation has been met.
Section 5(2) of the POA (which will become s.5(5) at a later time) says:
Notice of trial
(2) Where an offence notice is received under subsection (1), the clerk of the court shall, as soon as is practicable, give notice to the defendant and prosecutor of the time and place of the trial. R.S.O. 1990, c. P.33, s. 5 (2).
Surely, if they already have it in their system, then they should be letting you know at the same time ... that would be "as soon as is practicable". Otherwise those words, and that section, have no meaning. At least none of any force or effect, that is. If I were you, I would ask for an ICON printout for your case, and hopefully the date of trial would be on there. It might even have the date when the trial date was added to your case. You could then argue to the JP that the prosecution "sat" on this information instead of sending out a Notice of Trial "as soon as is practicable" to you, not in keeping with s. 5(2) of the POA.
Perhaps they haven't settled on a final trial date yet, and are trying to work out availability with the officer, etc. But I would still ask for that ICON printout of your case.
2) But why would you want to? You just have to make sure that you submit your s.11(b) motion 15 days ahead of your trial date, and that you properly serve it on the prosecutor, and the Attorneys General of Ontario and Canada. You said it was the end of December? You'll have to watch out b/c I think holidays in that period could count against you in the s.11(b) time-of-serving reckoning, but if you submit it by the 3rd week of November, you'll have no problems.
3) Yes you may. I was caught out by this once, even though the clerk in the office expressly told me that I needed to know my trial date first (b/c there was a field on their standard Disclosure Request form that asks for it). A JP told me afterwards that I didn't need to have it, and to just assume that the prosecution will be going ahead with your case, Notice of Trial in hand or not, and to act accordingly.
What is the offence, if I may ask? 13 months for a first trial date should guarantee a stay for all but a rare few HTA offences.
Thanks a lot! It's for a "136(1)(a) disobey stop sign" ticket. I'd like to send a letter to the court office saying that I haven't received a notification yet and requesting a trial date ASAP. Is there a template somewhere? I know this is important for the 11(b) argument...
Thanks a lot!
It's for a "136(1)(a) disobey stop sign" ticket.
I'd like to send a letter to the court office saying that I haven't received a notification yet and requesting a trial date ASAP.
Is there a template somewhere?
I know this is important for the 11(b) argument...
Hi Reflections, I would like to send a letter to the court office saying that I haven't received the notification yet and requesting if they could "speed up" the process. Would you have a template? Thanks again.
Reflections wrote:
You can search or goto a paralegal to draft your File form 4F, "Notice of Constituional Question" I believe it is. Your choice.
Hi Reflections,
I would like to send a letter to the court office saying that I haven't received the notification yet and requesting if they could "speed up" the process.
Hi Reflections, I would like to send a letter to the court office saying that I haven't received the notification yet and requesting if they could "speed up" the process. Would you have a template? Thanks again. You can send a letter, or call the prosecutor's office, etc., but you do not need to do this. It is not your responsibility to have to hound the State into bringing you to trial within a reasonable time. It's the State's responsibility, pure and simple. Submit your disclosure request ASAP (that will act as proof of your intention to meet the charge against you). There should be no way that you don't receive your disclosure by the trial date ... if you don't, it cannot in anyway be your fault, etc. In fact, if you put in your request next week, I think you could legitimately be on their case about it just before Thanksgiving. For a 4F template, just google ' "Notice of Constitutional Question" 11(b) ', and you'll get plenty of hits. Here's one that I got.
diehard wrote:
Reflections wrote:
You can search or goto a paralegal to draft your File form 4F, "Notice of Constituional Question" I believe it is. Your choice.
Hi Reflections,
I would like to send a letter to the court office saying that I haven't received the notification yet and requesting if they could "speed up" the process.
Would you have a template?
Thanks again.
You can send a letter, or call the prosecutor's office, etc., but you do not need to do this. It is not your responsibility to have to hound the State into bringing you to trial within a reasonable time. It's the State's responsibility, pure and simple. Submit your disclosure request ASAP (that will act as proof of your intention to meet the charge against you). There should be no way that you don't receive your disclosure by the trial date ... if you don't, it cannot in anyway be your fault, etc. In fact, if you put in your request next week, I think you could legitimately be on their case about it just before Thanksgiving.
For a 4F template, just google ' "Notice of Constitutional Question" 11(b) ', and you'll get plenty of hits.
Is this disclosure request form ok? http://respect.to/wiki/pmwiki.php?n=Leg ... losureForm As for the 4F template, that's when I submit a request for stay of charges (11(b)), at least two weeks before the trial date, right? Thanks!
As for the disclosure form, looks fine to me. I would just - in addition to your general request for all relevant documents - specifically ask for the officer's notes on the back of the ticket (his/her copy), and any personal notepad ("dashpad") notes that they took regarding your alleged offence. For the s.11(b) application, as I said previous, it has to be in at least 15 days prior (not two weeks), and I would give yourself more cover b/c holidays in and around your trial date may not be counted in that 15 day window. When is your trial date, exactly? As I said before, if you get it in by the 3rd week of November, youll be good.
As for the 4F template, that's when I submit a request for stay of charges (11(b)), at least two weeks before the trial date, right?
Thanks!
As for the disclosure form, looks fine to me. I would just - in addition to your general request for all relevant documents - specifically ask for the officer's notes on the back of the ticket (his/her copy), and any personal notepad ("dashpad") notes that they took regarding your alleged offence.
For the s.11(b) application, as I said previous, it has to be in at least 15 days prior (not two weeks), and I would give yourself more cover b/c holidays in and around your trial date may not be counted in that 15 day window. When is your trial date, exactly? As I said before, if you get it in by the 3rd week of November, youll be good.
As for the disclosure form, looks fine to me. I would just - in addition to your general request for all relevant documents - specifically ask for the officer's notes on the back of the ticket (his/her copy), and any personal notepad ("dashpad") notes that they took regarding your alleged offence. For the s.11(b) application, as I said previous, it has to be in at least 15 days prior (not two weeks), and I would give yourself more cover b/c holidays in and around your trial date may not be counted in that 15 day window. When is your trial date, exactly? As I said before, if you get it in by the 3rd week of November, youll be good. On the money
As for the 4F template, that's when I submit a request for stay of charges (11(b)), at least two weeks before the trial date, right?
Thanks!
As for the disclosure form, looks fine to me. I would just - in addition to your general request for all relevant documents - specifically ask for the officer's notes on the back of the ticket (his/her copy), and any personal notepad ("dashpad") notes that they took regarding your alleged offence.
For the s.11(b) application, as I said previous, it has to be in at least 15 days prior (not two weeks), and I would give yourself more cover b/c holidays in and around your trial date may not be counted in that 15 day window. When is your trial date, exactly? As I said before, if you get it in by the 3rd week of November, youll be good.
On the money
http://www.OHTA.ca OR http://www.OntarioTrafficAct.com
As for the disclosure form, looks fine to me. I would just - in addition to your general request for all relevant documents - specifically ask for the officer's notes on the back of the ticket (his/her copy), and any personal notepad ("dashpad") notes that they took regarding your alleged offence. For the s.11(b) application, as I said previous, it has to be in at least 15 days prior (not two weeks), and I would give yourself more cover b/c holidays in and around your trial date may not be counted in that 15 day window. When is your trial date, exactly? As I said before, if you get it in by the 3rd week of November, youll be good. Keroba, I'm still confused. What I would like to do right now is send a letter to the court office requesting that they "speed up" the trial date. This way I'm proving that I would like this solved ASAP just in case the judge questions my 11(b) request. The 11(b) forms willl be submitted at least 15 days prior to the trial date which I believe is Dec 23rd, that's what the lady told me when she checked the system. BTW, is that the actual trial date or the initial meeting with prosecutor?
As for the 4F template, that's when I submit a request for stay of charges (11(b)), at least two weeks before the trial date, right?
Thanks!
As for the disclosure form, looks fine to me. I would just - in addition to your general request for all relevant documents - specifically ask for the officer's notes on the back of the ticket (his/her copy), and any personal notepad ("dashpad") notes that they took regarding your alleged offence.
For the s.11(b) application, as I said previous, it has to be in at least 15 days prior (not two weeks), and I would give yourself more cover b/c holidays in and around your trial date may not be counted in that 15 day window. When is your trial date, exactly? As I said before, if you get it in by the 3rd week of November, youll be good.
Keroba,
I'm still confused.
What I would like to do right now is send a letter to the court office requesting that they "speed up" the trial date. This way I'm proving that I would like this solved ASAP just in case the judge questions my 11(b) request.
The 11(b) forms willl be submitted at least 15 days prior to the trial date which I believe is Dec 23rd, that's what the lady told me when she checked the system.
BTW, is that the actual trial date or the initial meeting with prosecutor?
You'll prove that you want your case sped up by requesting disclosure ASAP! You can throw a line in like "I've yet to receive my Notice of Trial, and it's been over X months." Get that disclosure request in this week. As I said in both posts before, if it's Dec. 23rd, I would submit the application earlier than 15 days before, just to be safe. If you get it in before the end of November, you should be good. As for your last question, I don't know, you have the paper. If it says something like "First Attendance Meeting", then that's what it is. A Notice of Trial will say "Notice of Trial" right along the top. Stop overthinking this, and just get the disclosure request in!!!
diehard wrote:
Keroba,
I'm still confused.
What I would like to do right now is send a letter to the court office requesting that they "speed up" the trial date. This way I'm proving that I would like this solved ASAP just in case the judge questions my 11(b) request.
The 11(b) forms willl be submitted at least 15 days prior to the trial date which I believe is Dec 23rd, that's what the lady told me when she checked the system.
BTW, is that the actual trial date or the initial meeting with prosecutor?
You'll prove that you want your case sped up by requesting disclosure ASAP! You can throw a line in like "I've yet to receive my Notice of Trial, and it's been over X months." Get that disclosure request in this week.
As I said in both posts before, if it's Dec. 23rd, I would submit the application earlier than 15 days before, just to be safe. If you get it in before the end of November, you should be good.
As for your last question, I don't know, you have the paper. If it says something like "First Attendance Meeting", then that's what it is. A Notice of Trial will say "Notice of Trial" right along the top.
Stop overthinking this, and just get the disclosure request in!!!
The notice of trial arrived by mail last Thursday. I just faxed the disclosure request. Thanks guys!!! I have a few questions though, which I'll be asking in a new topic.
The notice of trial arrived by mail last Thursday.
I just faxed the disclosure request.
Thanks guys!!!
I have a few questions though, which I'll be asking in a new topic.
I have a problem and not sure what the hell to do about it. Few days ago I was stopped on a street going westbound against blinding afternoon sun following the flow of traffic. I drive a taxi for living in Toronto and have ACZ driver's license. I have a perfect record both for professional as well regular demerit points. I haven't been pulled over as a matter of fact in some 15 years for…
I have recently gone to court for a speeding ticket issued by an OPP officer. As it stood, the officer forgot to sign the ticket. So at my trial, before I made a plea, I pointed this out to the justice of the peace and asked that the ticket be quashed. I was asked to produce my copy of the ticket, which I gave and the JOP then agreed with me and dismissed the case. Before he did so, the…
I got pulled over (along with about 10 other cars) for going through a road closed sign. I had just pulled out of a parking lot pretty much right beside the road closed sign, and with about 4 cars behind me there wasn't much I could do but go through, so I think I have a good chance of fighting it. However, on my ticket under the Signature of issuing Provincial Offences Officer, it's left…
So here's my situation, any advice would be appreciated.
On June 26, 2013 I received a ticket for 25 over in a 60 zone
In early October I received my notice of trial (Feb 25, 2014)
In early January I sent in my request for disclosure
In late January I received a letter to pick up my disclosure, however when I picked up my disclosure it wasn't typed (I had requested it to be) and I needed…
Is there a legal requirement to report an accident to the insurer?
Scenario
- 2 vehicle accident
- each vehicle has less than $1000 damage
- each vehicle has damage roughly equal to insurance deductible
- a police Accident Report was completed
In this scenario the drivers decided to repair their own damages. But are they legally bound to report the accident and damages to the insurer? ...and out of…
I will be representing my wife at her speeding trial next week. Mostly everything is pretty much run of the mill but since she wasn't speeding we will be having her take the stand. Since this opens up the opportunity for the prosecutor to cross examine, I am just wondering if anyone here knows what kind of questions we should expect from the prosecutor in order to best prepare.
i got pulled over by a cop this morning in my kids's school zone for failure to stop at a stop sign. i am thinking of fighting this ticket, but i noticed that on the ticket itself it only says "disobey stop sign - fail to stop" and there is no mention of the demerit points. a co-worker mentioned to me that a ticket should state how many demerit points i am being docked. i know the Highway Traffic…
Alright, so this happened back awhile ago on June and I haven't appeared in Court. However, I would like some inputs and advice before I get into this battle.
Back in June I got a Speeding Ticket claiming I was going 100km/h on Blackcreek going south towards Lawrence. The Speed Limit there is 70km/h.
At this point of time, it was roughly traffic hour around 4-5PM. Coming off of the Highway, and…
Ive already done searches, read the act as best i can but still haven't read a complete answer. Where in the HTA does it state that the front license plate must be attached to the front bumper? I have it on the passenger sun visor (if ppl remember the old temp permits that taped to the pass side of windshield) i figured that this spot would be the same. However now they have got rid of…
My son was returning from school and was just entering the driveway when another vehicle hit the rear end. Police writes a ticket "fail to yield from private drive" 139(i). He is going to fight this ticket and made an application for disclosure. The trial is next week and he still hasn't received the disclosure.
He checked with the court last month and they said that they will call when disclosure…
i was travelling on the 401 (posted speed 100km/h) in the far left lane, when i caught up to a vehicle going ~110km/h. I patiently waited for the vehicle to move over a lane, but they did not. The vehicle behind me moved to the center lane to pass, but because he was a safe distance behind me, i moved into the middle lane ahead of him to pass the slower moving car. When I accelerated, i…
So I was returning from my honeymoon in Montreal, and was cruising down the 401 just inside the Ontario/Quebec border. I was passing one of the Onroute stations and saw an OPP cruiser. I checked my speed and I was doing 120. A few kilometers up the road the cruiser pulled me over and told me I was clocked doing 132 by the aircraft. I was a little surprised to see the ticket was for the full…
I made a right turn during prohibited hours (7am-6pm) in Toronto. I was ticketed by a COP who was specially watching for that trap.
After I've received the ticket HTA144(9), I discovered one of the seven digits of my license plate was incorrectly written on my ticket. I was thinking about to make a First Attendance at the court office to see the prosecutor for a reduced charge...any advice or…
Have been busy and haven't had much time to follow up on this...
Went to court having not received disclosure (and was not organized enough to apply for a stay), so the trial was adjourned. They photocopied the officer's ticket and notes and provided a log sheet from the plane. I've sent another request for the rest of the disclosure items.
So here's my question -- can an officer amend the ticket…
I am not sure if my case is really a case of " mis-use parking permit" and need some advises on whether i should fight the ticket. Here is what happened:
During the labor day long weekend, I took my parents to diner at a local shopping mall. (my father's hip was broken in 2016 and he's been on wheelchair since, the permit is in his name and I been using the permit to help him for doctor's…
I have a court date coming up where I need to subpoena one of the officers that was present when I got my ticket. The issuing officer didn't include the fact that the second one was present at the time in his report (disclosure) but did give me the second officers name and badge number after the judge told him to do it.
What I'm looking for help with is the process of me getting to…
I got pulled over on a 4 lane section fo Highway 7... Thank god I didn't get a stay at home ticket as well or my car impounded.
Officer clocked me at 156 km/h he decided not to impound my car and give me a 149 km/h since it was my first offence and he said I was polite and respectful. I would give this officer a 5/5 review if I could, very polite and respectful.
Long story short, I was driving from Toronto to Ottawa and around Napanee with my friend in two separated cars, the officer was parked on uturn. He followed us turn his light on and got between us and pulled us over, he told me that i was running at 152 km/h without showing me his LISAR. they suspended my and my friends license and impounded the two cars for 7 days. This was a Friday in January…
I'm unsure on what to do here. I was under the impression that I could request a stay on the day of trial because disclosure was not given to me in an adequate time. I requested disclosure 2x by fax, 5 months ago.
I read on ticketcombat that I had to file a motion 15 days prior to the trial to request a stay of proceedings.
Does anyone else get blinded by fog lights on rural roads? I don't seem to have a problem with them on lighted streets, but the badly aimed fog lights or ones with a poor cutoff really get to me when driving the Escort. I just came back from a 20-minute drive, and every single pickup truck had fog lights on, and forced me to focus on the bottom right of the road. My windshield is clean and…
