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Careless Driving & Witness Notice to Court
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 10:54 am 
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Hello. I got a question. On March 12th, 2016 I was out riding my Motorcycle in Brampton/Mississauga as the weather was calm, clear skies and 14-16 degrees outside. Unfortunately I ended up colliding with a VW SUV, when my light turned Green I started to move, and all of the sudden I collided with an SUV which failed to Yield and ignored her Red lights while making a Left hand turn from opposite lane.

I was taken to hospital and as result have fractured scaphoid bone in my left hand and fractured 9th left rib. The driver of an SUV was charged with Section. 130 HTA "Careless Driving" and police report also included a POT#. I was not at fault and was charged with nothing.

My motorcycle a 2013 Honda CBR250R ABS was written off by the insurance company as a total loss. Few day's ago I got a notice to the court regarding this accident and to go to court as Witness as the form read Witness Summon.

Can someone explain the primary reason as to why I'm being called to court if the driver was already given a ticket since the report did include a POT#. Or am I missing something here? And in such case does it mean all the other people who gave witness statements to the police will also be called to court? And lastly can the driver attempt to get off easier or something?

Thanks in advance.


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Re: Careless Driving & Witness Notice to Court
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 12:42 pm 
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c1ph3r wrote:
Can someone explain the primary reason as to why I'm being called to court if the driver was already given a ticket since the report did include a POT#. Or am I missing something here? And in such case does it mean all the other people who gave witness statements to the police will also be called to court? And lastly can the driver attempt to get off easier or something


A ticket is not a conviction. The person is only being charged. They can pay the ticket which is essentially admitting guilt, or they can still request a trial. In your case, they've requested a trial. An officer didn't witness the accident, so they are relying on certain relevant statements by some (not all) individuals.

Technically, it's mandatory that you show up. If you don't show up, most likely the charge will be dropped and the other driver will walk away with their hands (somewhat) clean. That's what they're hoping for. I'd imagine if everyone involved was present, they'd most likely take a deal at that point. I doubt they'd go through with defending themselves against careless driving.

Insurance is a completely different story. The other drivers insurance doesn't care if the charge is dropped. They've most likely found the driver at fault for insurance purposes and they will be charged with a chargeable accident. Each chargeable accident comes with a surcharge percentage (eg. 20% surcharge). However, they wont be charged with careless and they'll save the surcharge on that (most likely a 100% surcharge).


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Re: Careless Driving & Witness Notice to Court
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 1:44 pm 
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The letter said I must attend, so I plan to testify as to what happened that day. This was on a busy intersection of Kennedy Rd & Derry Rd on Saturday at around 2:30pm, and I had quite a few people running to my aid. I also heard the driver saying she isn't guilty with many people yelling at her for running a Red light, because that's what it was.

And SUV to my left started moving and so did I as my light turned Green, I'm not stupid as a Motorcycle rider to go truth a red light, since I hit anything or anything hits me it's a done deal, I will die. So I felt pretty pissed rolling around in pain from smashing into the car and smashing my man goods while the lady was saying "She did not do anything...", yeah right the car just happened to go by itself then.

But from what you telling me, people charged with S. 130 HTA walk away without major slap on the wrist for being stupid enough to run a Red light and to hit another motorists. That's a shame, and by me being called to court this ignorant woman is going to try and say she did not do anything... Well this is pretty amazing, man this is unfair of the justice system. Afterall under the helmet is another human being who was obeying the law and driving responsibly, and just happened to be taken out by a non-responsible driver.

I'm guessing the court will hear my testimony, testimony of witnesses/cop and then make its verdict as to what to do with her? And out of curiosity S.130 HTA is a ticket but not a ticket. I did some internet research and some say 6 points + fine and other lawyers say $400-$2000 + 1-2 year suspension, so which is the real deal>?


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Re: Careless Driving & Witness Notice to Court
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 4:32 pm 
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The officer did not witness the accident, but you did. Since the other person plead Not Guilty to the charge and asked for a trial, somebody that actually witnessed the accident must show up at the trial in order for them to be found guilty... that would be you.

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Re: Careless Driving & Witness Notice to Court
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 6:43 pm 
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c1ph3r wrote:
But from what you telling me, people charged with S. 130 HTA walk away without major slap on the wrist for being stupid enough to run a Red light and to hit another motorists. That's a shame, and by me being called to court this ignorant woman is going to try and say she did not do anything... Well this is pretty amazing, man this is unfair of the justice system. Afterall under the helmet is another human being who was obeying the law and driving responsibly, and just happened to be taken out by a non-responsible driver.


99% of the time, there is zero penalties for being charged. That's because they are being charged, not convicted. Being charged with Careless Driving is one of the worst charges you can face, so i'm not sure what more you're expecting from the officer issuing the ticket.

I'm not sure how that makes the justice system unfair. In fact, it's the complete opposite. If convicted, it's a pretty big hit.


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Re: Careless Driving & Witness Notice to Court
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 7:07 pm 
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c1ph3r wrote:
people charged with S. 130 HTA walk away without major slap


When you are charged with anything (careless driving, speeding, no dog tags for your dog, etc) you are innocent until proven guilty. Getting a ticket does not mean you are convicted yet. You must be found guilty first which is followed by a conviction and the consequences. Now you can just choose the GUILTY option on the back of the ticket and accept the consequences, or you can plead NOT GUILTY and request a trial. This is really about as fair a system as you can get, and this is exactly how the law is written and how it is to occur.

This other person will be found 100% at fault by their insurance company for the accident, regardless of whether they are found guilty or not guilty of the charge. Insurance determination of who is at fault is completely independent of being charged/convicted of an offence.
If they are found guilty of the charge, then they will have to face a huge increase in insurance (or being dropped by insurance completely), plus pay the fine, plus deal with demerits points on license, plus deal with possible suspension of license.
If they are found NOT guilty of the charge, then they will still have to face a small increase in insurance for being at fault, but nothing else.

So if you and the police officer show up at the trial, then they will most likely be found guilty.

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+++ This is not legal advice, only my opinion +++


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