Hello, I was charged a few weeks ago for Careless Driving. It was rainy and slippery, I was driving what seemed slowly around a corner and the person was coming around the corner fast and going over the line and coming in my lane, so I slammed on my brakes because I didn't know if he would stay in my lane or come in further or what, and my vehicle ends up sliding because of the slippery road, and the vehicles ended up hitting, the officer believes that it was me who was going too fast as the cars were in his lane after the accident, also made some really biased comments about age which I didn't like, saying "As you get older you'll learn to drive slower" even after I told him that I was driving slowly (I'm in my late 20's, other person looked in their 50's), I really didn't like that and he didn't even really talk to me or get my statement until he had let the other driver go completely, as if he didn't care about my side of the story before determining blame and the ticket (he should have at least heard both sides first before letting the other guy go I thought?). I don't like this situation one bit, this feels like an unfortunate accident but I do not feel that I was driving carelessly as I was very aware of my speed and surroundings and was in the process of taking precaution to try to avoid an accident that I felt he was about to cause, but the car ends up sliding even with me going slow and him being the fast one that I saw coming in my lane. However, the person in the other vehicle was the only witness (there were no external witnesses) lives 700km away in the States. Being the only witness, does he have to show up to court, or is his written statement enough? Also, in your experience, will someone make a 700km trip to a different country to testify in a trial like this? What is the probability? 5%? 50%? 90%? Also when I meet with the prosecutor, do you think they will reduce ticket to a lesser charge (and should I accept a lesser charge) or will I have to fight this in court? Should I hire one of those places that fights tickets for you? How much do they typically cost to defend a Careless Driving charge like this? Sorry for so many questions, I never thought I would be in a situation like this and I've been doing some reading but it all seems so overwhelming. Any answers or advice or input would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
Hello,
I was charged a few weeks ago for Careless Driving. It was rainy and slippery, I was driving what seemed slowly around a corner and the person was coming around the corner fast and going over the line and coming in my lane, so I slammed on my brakes because I didn't know if he would stay in my lane or come in further or what, and my vehicle ends up sliding because of the slippery road, and the vehicles ended up hitting, the officer believes that it was me who was going too fast as the cars were in his lane after the accident, also made some really biased comments about age which I didn't like, saying "As you get older you'll learn to drive slower" even after I told him that I was driving slowly (I'm in my late 20's, other person looked in their 50's), I really didn't like that and he didn't even really talk to me or get my statement until he had let the other driver go completely, as if he didn't care about my side of the story before determining blame and the ticket (he should have at least heard both sides first before letting the other guy go I thought?). I don't like this situation one bit, this feels like an unfortunate accident but I do not feel that I was driving carelessly as I was very aware of my speed and surroundings and was in the process of taking precaution to try to avoid an accident that I felt he was about to cause, but the car ends up sliding even with me going slow and him being the fast one that I saw coming in my lane.
However, the person in the other vehicle was the only witness (there were no external witnesses) lives 700km away in the States. Being the only witness, does he have to show up to court, or is his written statement enough? Also, in your experience, will someone make a 700km trip to a different country to testify in a trial like this? What is the probability? 5%? 50%? 90%?
Also when I meet with the prosecutor, do you think they will reduce ticket to a lesser charge (and should I accept a lesser charge) or will I have to fight this in court? Should I hire one of those places that fights tickets for you? How much do they typically cost to defend a Careless Driving charge like this?
Sorry for so many questions, I never thought I would be in a situation like this and I've been doing some reading but it all seems so overwhelming. Any answers or advice or input would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
To my knowledge, in order to secure a conviction, the witness and the officer need to testify at the trial. So if the witness or officer (or both) don't show up, charges will be dropped. The next bit of my post is my pure thinking, so it should be taken with a grain of salt. In my opinion, no person will drive across a border for a 1 day trial. That's why majority of people who get tickets in the states pay it on the spot. It'll be too much of a hassle to arrive for the trial. I don't even they can be summoned to court, since an officer needs to deliver the subpoena in person. I highly doubt any officer is willing to go across the border to do so. The other thing could be (and yes this is illegal, but I know people who do this) they could be living in Ontario, but have plates from the states (cheaper registration and insurance). My friend's cousin has been living here for about 8 years now, still has Florida plates on his car, so that could be an option. Anyways, in my opinion, it would be a slim chance that the other party will be in attendance for the trial.
To my knowledge, in order to secure a conviction, the witness and the officer need to testify at the trial. So if the witness or officer (or both) don't show up, charges will be dropped.
The next bit of my post is my pure thinking, so it should be taken with a grain of salt.
In my opinion, no person will drive across a border for a 1 day trial. That's why majority of people who get tickets in the states pay it on the spot. It'll be too much of a hassle to arrive for the trial. I don't even they can be summoned to court, since an officer needs to deliver the subpoena in person. I highly doubt any officer is willing to go across the border to do so. The other thing could be (and yes this is illegal, but I know people who do this) they could be living in Ontario, but have plates from the states (cheaper registration and insurance). My friend's cousin has been living here for about 8 years now, still has Florida plates on his car, so that could be an option. Anyways, in my opinion, it would be a slim chance that the other party will be in attendance for the trial.
Thanks for the reply, that is great news to hear and puts me a bit at ease. He did have an American auto insurance and was traveling with a group of people from the States for a sports tournament (though none of the other cars were present during accident or to give a witness statement, they drove up to the scene afterwards) so I am fairly confident that he is not a Canadian citizen, but that was interesting to consider. I hear that there's a lot of suing in the States for compensation claims, and he got out of car saying his neck hurt. Could this increase his desire to travel across the border to testify or does my careless driving charge have absolutely nothing to do with him receiving more or less compensation from his insurance company since the accident occurred in Canada? Just wondering if this could be some extra incentive for him to travel across the border if they determine me to be at fault and he was trying to get more money?
UnluckyDuck wrote:
To my knowledge, in order to secure a conviction, the witness and the officer need to testify at the trial. So if the witness or officer (or both) don't show up, charges will be dropped.
The next bit of my post is my pure thinking, so it should be taken with a grain of salt.
In my opinion, no person will drive across a border for a 1 day trial. That's why majority of people who get tickets in the states pay it on the spot. It'll be too much of a hassle to arrive for the trial. I don't even they can be summoned to court, since an officer needs to deliver the subpoena in person. I highly doubt any officer is willing to go across the border to do so. The other thing could be (and yes this is illegal, but I know people who do this) they could be living in Ontario, but have plates from the states (cheaper registration and insurance). My friend's cousin has been living here for about 8 years now, still has Florida plates on his car, so that could be an option. Anyways, in my opinion, it would be a slim chance that the other party will be in attendance for the trial.
Thanks for the reply, that is great news to hear and puts me a bit at ease.
He did have an American auto insurance and was traveling with a group of people from the States for a sports tournament (though none of the other cars were present during accident or to give a witness statement, they drove up to the scene afterwards) so I am fairly confident that he is not a Canadian citizen, but that was interesting to consider.
I hear that there's a lot of suing in the States for compensation claims, and he got out of car saying his neck hurt. Could this increase his desire to travel across the border to testify or does my careless driving charge have absolutely nothing to do with him receiving more or less compensation from his insurance company since the accident occurred in Canada? Just wondering if this could be some extra incentive for him to travel across the border if they determine me to be at fault and he was trying to get more money?
Yes both the officer AND the witness MUST be at the trial in order for you to be convicted. If either is not there, then they must drop the charge. If the other person is from the US, there is a good chance they will not show up to the trial, which means there is a good chance that the charge will get dropped. I would plead Not Guilty and request a trial with the officer present. Once you get the Notice of Trial, you can then ask for disclosure (officers notes AND witness statements). Once you get the them, blank out personal/officer info and scan and post here for us to review. The prosecutor may or may not offer you a reduced charge on the trial date. If the police officer AND the other driver at the trial then you DO want to take the plea deal because if it went to trial, you would most likely lose unless you have a good lawyer. The careless charge has nothing to do with insurance claim, so he does not have to testify at your trial but can still pursue inusrance for compensation.
Yes both the officer AND the witness MUST be at the trial in order for you to be convicted. If either is not there, then they must drop the charge.
If the other person is from the US, there is a good chance they will not show up to the trial, which means there is a good chance that the charge will get dropped.
I would plead Not Guilty and request a trial with the officer present. Once you get the Notice of Trial, you can then ask for disclosure (officers notes AND witness statements). Once you get the them, blank out personal/officer info and scan and post here for us to review.
The prosecutor may or may not offer you a reduced charge on the trial date. If the police officer AND the other driver at the trial then you DO want to take the plea deal because if it went to trial, you would most likely lose unless you have a good lawyer.
The careless charge has nothing to do with insurance claim, so he does not have to testify at your trial but can still pursue inusrance for compensation.
It seems to me that you could defend yourself using the damage to the vehicles as evidence. Did you take pictures and or would you be relying on the police photos? Did the police take photos? Was this a left hand corner or a right hand corner? What is your vehicle? What is the other vehicle?
It seems to me that you could defend yourself using the damage to the vehicles as evidence.
Did you take pictures and or would you be relying on the police photos?
Did the police take photos?
Was this a left hand corner or a right hand corner?
They must have a witness that SAW the event testify. They can not use the witness statement. The person themselves must show up to tell their story. The police officer is there to say that they checked id and took report and issued ticket, but if the officer did not witness the event, then they can not testify to that. If the officer saw the event then they do not need another witness, but if the officer did not see the event then they must have another witness that saw it. Now there is the possibility that they try to use the OP to testify against themselves, but they can just choose to not testify against themselves and then they have no case and must drop the charge.
They must have a witness that SAW the event testify. They can not use the witness statement. The person themselves must show up to tell their story.
The police officer is there to say that they checked id and took report and issued ticket, but if the officer did not witness the event, then they can not testify to that.
If the officer saw the event then they do not need another witness, but if the officer did not see the event then they must have another witness that saw it.
Now there is the possibility that they try to use the OP to testify against themselves, but they can just choose to not testify against themselves and then they have no case and must drop the charge.
[quote="jsherk"]They must have a witness that SAW the event testify. They can not use the witness statement. The person themselves must show up to tell their story. The police officer is there to say that they checked id and took report and issued ticket, but if the officer did not witness the event, then they can not testify to that. If the officer saw the event then they do not need another witness, but if the officer did not see the event then they must have another witness that saw it. Now there is the possibility that they try to use the OP to testify against themselves, but they can just choose to not testify against themselves and then they have no case and must drop the charge.[/quote I see. It looks good for the OP then
[quote="jsherk"]They must have a witness that SAW the event testify. They can not use the witness statement. The person themselves must show up to tell their story.
The police officer is there to say that they checked id and took report and issued ticket, but if the officer did not witness the event, then they can not testify to that.
If the officer saw the event then they do not need another witness, but if the officer did not see the event then they must have another witness that saw it.
Now there is the possibility that they try to use the OP to testify against themselves, but they can just choose to not testify against themselves and then they have no case and must drop the charge.[/quote
Thanks everyone. I got disclosure so I will post it here (However, in my disclosure request I said typed version of any hand written notes and they provided no typed version, they are hard to read so I am going to continue trying to get a typed version). I'll post the final 2 files in next post since 3 is maximum for one post. A couple things to comment on since there are things in the notes that don't make sense: 1) Officer said point of impact was 4m into his lane, then changed it to 3m in the accident report, but even 3m is impossible given the witness's statement. The entire road is 8.6m across with the officer's measurement, however my lane has a solid line bike lane, and his lane does not, so there is much less than 4.3m on his lane. I have went back to the accident place, and when a car is pressed against the curb at accident location, there is approximately 1 meter between the car and the middle line. His lane is very narrow. Witness reported that it was my car that pushed his car over the curb, but under that circumstance, the MAXIMUM point of impact would be 1 meter or less in his lane. 2) On officer's notes, the information is incorrect. He put that there are 2 lanes in each side of the road, but there is only 1 lane (plus the bike lane on my side). He also put that my lane's posted speed was 30 but the other person's posted speed was 50, but this is also not true, both lanes had a yellow posted speed of 30 (and other driver admits he was going 40km/h). 3) Officer did not sign the collision statement or put his name or anything, does this mean anything? Is this still admissable in court since he did not sign it or anything? 4) Witness says I hit him "hard enough to push his car over the curb and into the rock wall". I guess this is what they will use to try to prove that I was going fast even though I was not. He was travelling 40km/h and says he swirved to his right. He would have gone over the curb and into the wall even if there was no collision. There were no airbags deployed even though my car had an airbag that was recently serviced and ensured to be working because of a Toyota Recall, no seatbelt mark across the chest (I can get my doctor's report for proof), my car was drivable after the incident and didn't need to be towed, me and my dad drove it home to my house. I have looked up crash test videos of cars hitting at 30km/h, the cars get so pressed in at the front and so squished, my car was nowhere near that level of damage. Here is a google maps picture of the corner and street, accident happened just beyond the wooden pole: https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.1996741, ... 312!8i6656
jsherk wrote:
Yes both the officer AND the witness MUST be at the trial in order for you to be convicted. If either is not there, then they must drop the charge.
If the other person is from the US, there is a good chance they will not show up to the trial, which means there is a good chance that the charge will get dropped.
I would plead Not Guilty and request a trial with the officer present. Once you get the Notice of Trial, you can then ask for disclosure (officers notes AND witness statements). Once you get the them, blank out personal/officer info and scan and post here for us to review.
The prosecutor may or may not offer you a reduced charge on the trial date. If the police officer AND the other driver at the trial then you DO want to take the plea deal because if it went to trial, you would most likely lose unless you have a good lawyer.
The careless charge has nothing to do with insurance claim, so he does not have to testify at your trial but can still pursue inusrance for compensation.
Thanks everyone. I got disclosure so I will post it here (However, in my disclosure request I said typed version of any hand written notes and they provided no typed version, they are hard to read so I am going to continue trying to get a typed version). I'll post the final 2 files in next post since 3 is maximum for one post.
A couple things to comment on since there are things in the notes that don't make sense:
1) Officer said point of impact was 4m into his lane, then changed it to 3m in the accident report, but even 3m is impossible given the witness's statement. The entire road is 8.6m across with the officer's measurement, however my lane has a solid line bike lane, and his lane does not, so there is much less than 4.3m on his lane. I have went back to the accident place, and when a car is pressed against the curb at accident location, there is approximately 1 meter between the car and the middle line. His lane is very narrow. Witness reported that it was my car that pushed his car over the curb, but under that circumstance, the MAXIMUM point of impact would be 1 meter or less in his lane.
2) On officer's notes, the information is incorrect. He put that there are 2 lanes in each side of the road, but there is only 1 lane (plus the bike lane on my side). He also put that my lane's posted speed was 30 but the other person's posted speed was 50, but this is also not true, both lanes had a yellow posted speed of 30 (and other driver admits he was going 40km/h).
3) Officer did not sign the collision statement or put his name or anything, does this mean anything? Is this still admissable in court since he did not sign it or anything?
4) Witness says I hit him "hard enough to push his car over the curb and into the rock wall". I guess this is what they will use to try to prove that I was going fast even though I was not. He was travelling 40km/h and says he swirved to his right. He would have gone over the curb and into the wall even if there was no collision. There were no airbags deployed even though my car had an airbag that was recently serviced and ensured to be working because of a Toyota Recall, no seatbelt mark across the chest (I can get my doctor's report for proof), my car was drivable after the incident and didn't need to be towed, me and my dad drove it home to my house. I have looked up crash test videos of cars hitting at 30km/h, the cars get so pressed in at the front and so squished, my car was nowhere near that level of damage.
Here is a google maps picture of the corner and street, accident happened just beyond the wooden pole:
Just a quick one - the report is not saying that there were 2 lanes in each direction with different speed limits. R1 is the road you were both on and has 2 lanes, one in each direction with a 30km limit for both. R2 is the road that intersects your road. It also has 2 lanes and the speed limit is 50. They are marked on the diagram R1 and R2
Just a quick one - the report is not saying that there were 2 lanes in each direction with different speed limits. R1 is the road you were both on and has 2 lanes, one in each direction with a 30km limit for both. R2 is the road that intersects your road. It also has 2 lanes and the speed limit is 50.
They are marked on the diagram R1 and R2
Former Ontario Police Officer. Advice will become less relevant as the time goes by !
Oh that makes sense, I thought it was talking about each of the lanes, I think I mistook it for V1 and V2. Although when I look at it now, it should say Max Speed 50 and Advisory 30, but it just says Max Speed 30.
argyll wrote:
Just a quick one - the report is not saying that there were 2 lanes in each direction with different speed limits. R1 is the road you were both on and has 2 lanes, one in each direction with a 30km limit for both. R2 is the road that intersects your road. It also has 2 lanes and the speed limit is 50.
They are marked on the diagram R1 and R2
Oh that makes sense, I thought it was talking about each of the lanes, I think I mistook it for V1 and V2. Although when I look at it now, it should say Max Speed 50 and Advisory 30, but it just says Max Speed 30.
I have a problem and not sure what the hell to do about it. Few days ago I was stopped on a street going westbound against blinding afternoon sun following the flow of traffic. I drive a taxi for living in Toronto and have ACZ driver's license. I have a perfect record both for professional as well regular demerit points. I haven't been pulled over as a matter of fact in some 15 years for…
I have recently gone to court for a speeding ticket issued by an OPP officer. As it stood, the officer forgot to sign the ticket. So at my trial, before I made a plea, I pointed this out to the justice of the peace and asked that the ticket be quashed. I was asked to produce my copy of the ticket, which I gave and the JOP then agreed with me and dismissed the case. Before he did so, the…
I got pulled over (along with about 10 other cars) for going through a road closed sign. I had just pulled out of a parking lot pretty much right beside the road closed sign, and with about 4 cars behind me there wasn't much I could do but go through, so I think I have a good chance of fighting it. However, on my ticket under the Signature of issuing Provincial Offences Officer, it's left…
So here's my situation, any advice would be appreciated.
On June 26, 2013 I received a ticket for 25 over in a 60 zone
In early October I received my notice of trial (Feb 25, 2014)
In early January I sent in my request for disclosure
In late January I received a letter to pick up my disclosure, however when I picked up my disclosure it wasn't typed (I had requested it to be) and I needed…
Is there a legal requirement to report an accident to the insurer?
Scenario
- 2 vehicle accident
- each vehicle has less than $1000 damage
- each vehicle has damage roughly equal to insurance deductible
- a police Accident Report was completed
In this scenario the drivers decided to repair their own damages. But are they legally bound to report the accident and damages to the insurer? ...and out of…
I will be representing my wife at her speeding trial next week. Mostly everything is pretty much run of the mill but since she wasn't speeding we will be having her take the stand. Since this opens up the opportunity for the prosecutor to cross examine, I am just wondering if anyone here knows what kind of questions we should expect from the prosecutor in order to best prepare.
i got pulled over by a cop this morning in my kids's school zone for failure to stop at a stop sign. i am thinking of fighting this ticket, but i noticed that on the ticket itself it only says "disobey stop sign - fail to stop" and there is no mention of the demerit points. a co-worker mentioned to me that a ticket should state how many demerit points i am being docked. i know the Highway Traffic…
Alright, so this happened back awhile ago on June and I haven't appeared in Court. However, I would like some inputs and advice before I get into this battle.
Back in June I got a Speeding Ticket claiming I was going 100km/h on Blackcreek going south towards Lawrence. The Speed Limit there is 70km/h.
At this point of time, it was roughly traffic hour around 4-5PM. Coming off of the Highway, and…
Ive already done searches, read the act as best i can but still haven't read a complete answer. Where in the HTA does it state that the front license plate must be attached to the front bumper? I have it on the passenger sun visor (if ppl remember the old temp permits that taped to the pass side of windshield) i figured that this spot would be the same. However now they have got rid of…
My son was returning from school and was just entering the driveway when another vehicle hit the rear end. Police writes a ticket "fail to yield from private drive" 139(i). He is going to fight this ticket and made an application for disclosure. The trial is next week and he still hasn't received the disclosure.
He checked with the court last month and they said that they will call when disclosure…
i was travelling on the 401 (posted speed 100km/h) in the far left lane, when i caught up to a vehicle going ~110km/h. I patiently waited for the vehicle to move over a lane, but they did not. The vehicle behind me moved to the center lane to pass, but because he was a safe distance behind me, i moved into the middle lane ahead of him to pass the slower moving car. When I accelerated, i…
So I was returning from my honeymoon in Montreal, and was cruising down the 401 just inside the Ontario/Quebec border. I was passing one of the Onroute stations and saw an OPP cruiser. I checked my speed and I was doing 120. A few kilometers up the road the cruiser pulled me over and told me I was clocked doing 132 by the aircraft. I was a little surprised to see the ticket was for the full…
I made a right turn during prohibited hours (7am-6pm) in Toronto. I was ticketed by a COP who was specially watching for that trap.
After I've received the ticket HTA144(9), I discovered one of the seven digits of my license plate was incorrectly written on my ticket. I was thinking about to make a First Attendance at the court office to see the prosecutor for a reduced charge...any advice or…
Have been busy and haven't had much time to follow up on this...
Went to court having not received disclosure (and was not organized enough to apply for a stay), so the trial was adjourned. They photocopied the officer's ticket and notes and provided a log sheet from the plane. I've sent another request for the rest of the disclosure items.
So here's my question -- can an officer amend the ticket…
I am not sure if my case is really a case of " mis-use parking permit" and need some advises on whether i should fight the ticket. Here is what happened:
During the labor day long weekend, I took my parents to diner at a local shopping mall. (my father's hip was broken in 2016 and he's been on wheelchair since, the permit is in his name and I been using the permit to help him for doctor's…
I have a court date coming up where I need to subpoena one of the officers that was present when I got my ticket. The issuing officer didn't include the fact that the second one was present at the time in his report (disclosure) but did give me the second officers name and badge number after the judge told him to do it.
What I'm looking for help with is the process of me getting to…
I got pulled over on a 4 lane section fo Highway 7... Thank god I didn't get a stay at home ticket as well or my car impounded.
Officer clocked me at 156 km/h he decided not to impound my car and give me a 149 km/h since it was my first offence and he said I was polite and respectful. I would give this officer a 5/5 review if I could, very polite and respectful.
Long story short, I was driving from Toronto to Ottawa and around Napanee with my friend in two separated cars, the officer was parked on uturn. He followed us turn his light on and got between us and pulled us over, he told me that i was running at 152 km/h without showing me his LISAR. they suspended my and my friends license and impounded the two cars for 7 days. This was a Friday in January…
I'm unsure on what to do here. I was under the impression that I could request a stay on the day of trial because disclosure was not given to me in an adequate time. I requested disclosure 2x by fax, 5 months ago.
I read on ticketcombat that I had to file a motion 15 days prior to the trial to request a stay of proceedings.
Does anyone else get blinded by fog lights on rural roads? I don't seem to have a problem with them on lighted streets, but the badly aimed fog lights or ones with a poor cutoff really get to me when driving the Escort. I just came back from a 20-minute drive, and every single pickup truck had fog lights on, and forced me to focus on the bottom right of the road. My windshield is clean and…
