My wife recently received a spedding ticket for going 69 in a 40, a trial date has been given, looking for opinions for tactics in case the officer shows. One particular issue that is bothering me is the placement of the speed limit sign. Firstly is is posted "40 BEGINS" just as you start the downhill ie. not visible as you approach the sign. Secondly; the sign is located, due to a grass verge and sidewalk, at least 15-20 feet from the roadway, where all along this stretch of raodway all other signs are within 5 feet of the roadway. Cops are here all the time, probably because so many drivers do not notice the sign and the downhill keeps you travelling faster than you might think. Anyway, Is there a regulation that can be argued about the sign not only being hard to see and act on, you have less than 20 m to slow down from when you can first see the sign and when the reduced limit takes affect, but also TOO FAR from the roadway?
My wife recently received a spedding ticket for going 69 in a 40, a trial date has been given, looking for opinions for tactics in case the officer shows.
One particular issue that is bothering me is the placement of the speed limit sign.
Firstly is is posted "40 BEGINS" just as you start the downhill ie. not visible as you approach the sign.
Secondly; the sign is located, due to a grass verge and sidewalk, at least 15-20 feet from the roadway, where all along this stretch of raodway all other signs are within 5 feet of the roadway.
Cops are here all the time, probably because so many drivers do not notice the sign and the downhill keeps you travelling faster than you might think.
Anyway, Is there a regulation that can be argued about the sign not only being hard to see and act on, you have less than 20 m to slow down from when you can first see the sign and when the reduced limit takes affect, but also TOO FAR from the roadway?
Thanks Moderator, There are a number of regulations that apply to speed limit signage. This particular sign clearly does not follow the rules set out in the HTA. I've had a chance to talk to a couple of lawyers about this and their collective experience says that Judges will usually side with the public if the city has not properly displayed the signage. If they could just post any sign, anywhere and in any fashion the rules regulating them would not exist. Mr. Borys, Aren't you a ray of sunshine...are you sure that you have joined the right forum?
Thanks Moderator,
There are a number of regulations that apply to speed limit signage. This particular sign clearly does not follow the rules set out in the HTA.
I've had a chance to talk to a couple of lawyers about this and their collective experience says that Judges will usually side with the public if the city has not properly displayed the signage. If they could just post any sign, anywhere and in any fashion the rules regulating them would not exist.
Mr. Borys,
Aren't you a ray of sunshine...are you sure that you have joined the right forum?
In Simon's defense, he devotes and volunteers a lot of his time here to help those like you and others. He, along with a few other people here, have years of experience to help and advise people such as yourself and do not benefit from doing so.
In Simon's defense, he devotes and volunteers a lot of his time here to help those like you and others. He, along with a few other people here, have years of experience to help and advise people such as yourself and do not benefit from doing so.
Take the mystery out of driving. Use your turn signal.
Thanks Puzzled, I understand that the help and advice is given pro bono and it is certainly greatly appreciated. I was just commenting on his particular response to my question where he came across as a disgruntled ex cop rather than a helpful moderator, especially since in this particular matter he was way off. I joined the forum for help and advice, I can get ridiculed by a cop any where. Let's just leave Simon out of this going forward. Thanks everyone
Thanks Puzzled,
I understand that the help and advice is given pro bono and
it is certainly greatly appreciated. I was just commenting
on his particular response to my question where he came
across as a disgruntled ex cop rather than a helpful moderator,
especially since in this particular matter he was way off.
I joined the forum for help and advice, I can get ridiculed
Yes, I'm sure I've joined the right forum...a forum where I try to share with others the benefit of my experience. Right now my experience is telling me that speeding is an absolute liability offence and therefore you will not be permitted to try to enter a defence of any kind at a trial, including one related to the adequacy or inadequacy of the signage. That is what absolute liability means. I'm just trying to save you planting a tree that will not bear fruit. Even if I don't have time to write a detailed response to every post suggesting where someone should be directing their efforts, I still try to let them know if they're barking up the wrong tree.
Yes, I'm sure I've joined the right forum...a forum where I try to share with others the benefit of my experience. Right now my experience is telling me that speeding is an absolute liability offence and therefore you will not be permitted to try to enter a defence of any kind at a trial, including one related to the adequacy or inadequacy of the signage. That is what absolute liability means. I'm just trying to save you planting a tree that will not bear fruit. Even if I don't have time to write a detailed response to every post suggesting where someone should be directing their efforts, I still try to let them know if they're barking up the wrong tree.
No, he wasn't "way off." He said: That is correct. Speeding is an absolute liability offence, and that's according to the Supreme Court of Canada. The Prosecutor only has to prove that your wife was exceeding the posted speed limit, and that is it. As for the sign, if you can prove that the sign is non-compliant with O.Reg 615, then that means that the speed limit she should've been following was the default of 50 km/h. Problem is, the officer says she was going 69. I suppose if she was just coming out of a 70 (or higher) zone, you might win. However, even if the "40 begins" sign was not correctly posted, if there were other signs before the place where the officer was stationed, it then depends on where the officer took the speed reading. You'd need disclosure of the officer's notes to find out, which you can get via a disclosure request (if you haven't already made one). You'd then have to visit the scene and take measurements and photos to back up your claim. Unless she was coming out of a 70 zone, I don't think this will work. Most speeding cases are won on technicalities (e.g. improper testing of the device, no tracking history, 11B, improper disclosure). Worst-case scenario, if the officer shows up, your wife should be offered a plea-bargain to a lesser speed. I did see a person win a court case where a speed limit sign was improperly posted - but that was an improper construction zone sign which said "40," the original (and clearly posted) limit was 60 and he was going 57. The guy had a full factum put together: Photos, O. Reg 615, measurements and case law. And yes, Simon Borys has joined the right forum. He has been quite helpful to a number of people who have come on here seeking advice, helping them beat their tickets, and also steering them away from a course of action that will lead nowhere (as he says). Attacking him is not going to help you win your case.
andrewm73 wrote:
I was just commenting
on his particular response to my question where he came
across as a disgruntled ex cop rather than a helpful moderator,
especially since in this particular matter he was way off.
No, he wasn't "way off." He said:
Simon Borys wrote:
Visibility of the sign or awareness of the speed zone is essentially irrelevant as speeding is an absolute liability offence.
That is correct. Speeding is an absolute liability offence, and that's according to the Supreme Court of Canada. The Prosecutor only has to prove that your wife was exceeding the posted speed limit, and that is it. As for the sign, if you can prove that the sign is non-compliant with O.Reg 615, then that means that the speed limit she should've been following was the default of 50 km/h. Problem is, the officer says she was going 69. I suppose if she was just coming out of a 70 (or higher) zone, you might win. However, even if the "40 begins" sign was not correctly posted, if there were other signs before the place where the officer was stationed, it then depends on where the officer took the speed reading. You'd need disclosure of the officer's notes to find out, which you can get via a disclosure request (if you haven't already made one). You'd then have to visit the scene and take measurements and photos to back up your claim. Unless she was coming out of a 70 zone, I don't think this will work. Most speeding cases are won on technicalities (e.g. improper testing of the device, no tracking history, 11B, improper disclosure).
Worst-case scenario, if the officer shows up, your wife should be offered a plea-bargain to a lesser speed. I did see a person win a court case where a speed limit sign was improperly posted - but that was an improper construction zone sign which said "40," the original (and clearly posted) limit was 60 and he was going 57. The guy had a full factum put together: Photos, O. Reg 615, measurements and case law.
And yes, Simon Borys has joined the right forum. He has been quite helpful to a number of people who have come on here seeking advice, helping them beat their tickets, and also steering them away from a course of action that will lead nowhere (as he says). Attacking him is not going to help you win your case.
* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca
Thanks, disclosure has been applied for. Will se what we get. Regarding Simon ... As already said lets move on, My God people really No one is "attacking" anyone here.
Thanks, disclosure has been applied for. Will se what we get.
Hi so I have a bizzare situation. Today I received a summons for "being the owner of a motor vehicle bearing Vehicle Identification Number ###, failed to submit the vehicle, equipment or drawn vehicle for inspection or tests as required by an officer" for a vehicle I previously owned. Apparently a violation of HTA 82(9).
The date of offense is June 15, the summons was issued on October 26th and I…
Hi, I need some help for the ticket of lmproper left turn.
When i drove my car from east to west, intending to make a left turn and stop in front of stop line. There was a car in front of me, which has turn on yellow light. The light was turning red and then I thought I cannot leave in the intersection and turned, an incoming car was runing the light and hit me. No one got hurt but both cars had…
Have a ticket in which the radar used was a Genesis VP Directional. I had downloaded the manual for a Genesis VP but I now realize that the unit is not the same so it is the wrong manual. My trial is very soon so I do not have time to ask for disclosure of the manual.
Does anyone have access to an electronic version of the manual for Genesis VP Directional?
I was pulled over today in the city of Oakville for going 75 in a 40 zone. However, I am 100 percent certain that I was going only 50 in the 40 zone. When I was pulled over, I was driving my Dad's car which I felt was the reason I was getting stopped since two teenagers driving a 2013 S Class. He asked does I know why I am being pulled over and I…
I really need help on fighting my 9 tickets i received from one police officer. Here is some background of what happened!
I was caught speeding 66km on a 40km (school zone) on January 29, 2010. I was driving my friend's car and turns out she didnt renew the validation on the vehicle and didnt leave the up to date insurance paper on the car.
Hey question that I think here's probably the best place to get the answer:
I was charged with a careless driving offence in oct, trail in early april, so as of right now my insurance record is 100% clean... except the officer did file an accident report at the scene where I was classified at fault due to it being PI (although very minor). The person I hit did not sue etc, so the insurance company…
Very much unintentionally passed a stopped bus, with sign and flashing lights. Didn't realize I had done it until I was at the end of the bus. I'll save you my sob story, but it was truly accidental. I'm generally very cautious and have a perfect driving record. Never been stopped.
While I realize if a cop had seen me that I would have gotten a ticket, there were none in sight. Though I may very…
I was recently pulled over for running a red and I wasnt able to find my wallet in the car at the time to hand over my license. I had a passport in the vehicle that he used. The wallet was in the vehicle, it just fell through the seats. (Tough to find a black leather wallet in a black/black leather truck at night).
The officer still wrote the tickets for both he signed the one ticket (failure to…
I was passing a vehicle that was going slow for me and there was an oncoming vehicle coming at me. I speed up to get around the person I was passing and the oncoming vehicle turns out to be a cop who turns around and tickets me for going 110km in a 80km zone. How does it work with passing a vehicle? Once I passed the vehicle I went back down to my original speed of just under 100. The officer…
I picked up a brand new (old stock) Fuzzbuster a while ago at auction (wopping $5!!) and I want to mount it on the dash of my old GTO as a cool accessory when I show it at car shows. But I'm not sure if it's legal or not.
Here's my thoughts:
- It is early 70's technology (x-band) so it won't detect modern police radar. That's assuming no police force uses the old x-band frequency.
Hi guys, I'm still a little in shock of getting my first traffic ticket...
On Monday afternoon, I was returning from Toronto to Ottawa on HW416, I was driving about 15 over 100 like always. Then a car came very close to me on the left lane and made me nervous, I speed up unintentionally to pass the car and change lane, but while doing that a police car pull out of the median. He was hiding in…
May i ask this question regarding transport trucks limited to 105 km/h. Moving road blocks or safety?
IMO it isnt speed that kills. I find transport trucks infact help keep the road going. With cars that choose to not move to the right and slow down the middle lane the trucks would try to pass in their passing lane therefore the slower traffic would move right.
Received a notice from the police that a motion is being put forward to adjourn upcoming trial date. Notice indicates that an officer has sworn an affidavit that the crucial witness cannot attend date trial is set for (we know there is a social engagement at 7:30 pm for the witness, trial time is 1:30 pm). This further delay is a big problem to my daughter's case. She is moving away to…
This is what happened. I was travelling west on a four lane city street that was very light with traffic. I was making a left hand turn into a wide driveway of a business. There was traffic lights about 100 yards past the driveway and were red for the east-west traffic. I was in the left lane with my signal on and there was no oncoming traffic due to the red light. I was slowed right down…
I was driving my families older car and got pulled over, and the police officer informed me my plate was dirty. He issued me a ticket of $110 for the 13(2) act and obstruct plate as the offense. He informed me that such a plate could be used to avoid red lights as well as 407 tolls, also that buying a new plate can help to lower the ticket if I fight the charge, and that he also took a picture…
I received a red light camera ticket. In the picture, you see an ambulance in front of me with flashing lights. I had moved to alleviate the traffic behind me for the emergency vehicles coming behind it.
Is this a possible defense, if so, does anyone know any good case law to justify this position?
what happens if they charge someone for driving at 151Km/hr in montreal and they put for trial, appear after some months and sadly lost the trial ?
In montreal its $300 fine and 5demerit points ...
I heard Ontario and Qubec share the information. So once the trial is over ( and when the file moved to ontario) will his car gets towed and licence get suspended for 7days (later to 30 days ) ? and he…
I got a notice in the mail that trial is set four weeks from today, so it's time to request disclosure. I have zero chance of getting an 11b since trial is less than two months after the offense date and the officer did not reduce the charge. I really want to try and create delays on the trial, to reduce the chance of the officer showing up on multiple occasions. Is there any known loop-holes…
This weekend my father was involved in an accident with a transit bus in Burlington, ON. After the police showed up he was charged with "Fail to obey stop sign" Sec. 136(1)(a). At this particular intersection there NO stop signs but there are traffic lights. There is construction going on there so one of the light posts is smaller.
Driving conditions were terribly wet and visibility was low.…
So my boyfriend and I recently started dating. I have a vehicle that was insured. Insurance cost too much and I found it was just as easy to walk to work due to how close it was. But I didn't want to get rid of my car just yet, plus I'm still making payments on it as well. When we moved into our appartment together, I had it towed to my parking spot out back.
I was making a left hand legal turn on a green light, a driver came through the lane I was supposed to be going into ran the red and hit me head on as I was turning into my lane. When the officer came he was telling me that I was racing and driving recklessly because apparently there was reports of street racing in the area. I was not charged on the scene for this but I'm scared i am going to be…
I got a ticket for failure to surrender insurance because I did not have my new insurance stubs with me, just a bunch of expired ones. My policy number has not changed, so I asked the officer to just run the policy number so I could prove that I was in fact insured. He said they don't have that ability, handed me the ticket and reminded me that my car could have been impounded.
So I'm in a bit of a pickle and would appreciate if someone could clarify something for me.
I'm less than a month away (test on April 6th) from getting my full G license, and got a speeding ticket recently. The ticket was for 49km/h over the posted limit of 100km/h on the 403 in Oakville/Halton region, but was reduced from the initial ~60km/h over.
