Reference is made in the HTA to Stop Signs at Railway Crossings (passive crossings): HTA, 163 (2) O Reg 615 (7) However I cannot find specific regulation detailing how a railway crossing controlled by a stop sign must be configured. The Ontario Traffic Manual, Book 11 - Markings and Delineation under section "3.9 Reserved Facility Markings - Railways" (p99) speaks to the needs for marking, but is there anywhere in the Acts, Regulations, etc where this has legal status. Might it be under MTO regulations, or something along the lines of a "Railway Act"??
Reference is made in the HTA to Stop Signs at Railway Crossings (passive crossings):
HTA, 163 (2)
O Reg 615 (7)
However I cannot find specific regulation detailing how a railway crossing controlled by a stop sign must be configured.
The Ontario Traffic Manual, Book 11 - Markings and Delineation under section "3.9 Reserved Facility Markings - Railways" (p99) speaks to the needs for marking, but is there anywhere in the Acts, Regulations, etc where this has legal status.
Might it be under MTO regulations, or something along the lines of a "Railway Act"??
Hi hwybear, We seem to be working questions and answers across a few different sub-forms and topics. That's good. I realize my question probably wasn't specific enough, so here's a different approach: 1) Who has the responsibility and the authority to erect traffic controls at a railway crossing? - There are 2 general types, active and passive. I believe the Railroad organization has to control installation and maintenance of the active type (Flashing lights, gates, etc), as this is tied into their signaling and control system. But what about the passive (ie Stop Sign)? I have never seen a Municipal By_law that states "Stop Sign shall be erected at...railway crossing", and it would be too ambiguous for the Railroad to leave it to each Municipality / City, etc they cross through. So do Municipalities have the authority, or..?? How is that handled? 2) Who has the responsibility for placing and maintaining pavement markings at Railway crossing approaches (large X on road, warning signs, the two transverse stop bars, etc...)? This division of authority and responsibility is what I can't find in "legalese". And a somewhat unrelated question regarding markings: Is there anything in the regulations that prevents using the 2 transverse stop bars as a stop line at an intersection controlled by a stop sign (as opposed to the single 30-60 cm wide stop line)? (Sorry, it kind of grew as I thought about it!)
Hi hwybear,
We seem to be working questions and answers across a few different sub-forms and topics. That's good.
I realize my question probably wasn't specific enough, so here's a different approach:
1) Who has the responsibility and the authority to erect traffic controls at a railway crossing?
- There are 2 general types, active and passive. I believe the Railroad organization has to control installation and maintenance of the active type (Flashing lights, gates, etc), as this is tied into their signaling and control system. But what about the passive (ie Stop Sign)? I have never seen a Municipal By_law that states "Stop Sign shall be erected at...railway crossing", and it would be too ambiguous for the Railroad to leave it to each Municipality / City, etc they cross through. So do Municipalities have the authority, or..?? How is that handled?
2) Who has the responsibility for placing and maintaining pavement markings at Railway crossing approaches (large X on road, warning signs, the two transverse stop bars, etc...)?
This division of authority and responsibility is what I can't find in "legalese".
And a somewhat unrelated question regarding markings:
Is there anything in the regulations that prevents using the 2 transverse stop bars as a stop line at an intersection controlled by a stop sign (as opposed to the single 30-60 cm wide stop line)?
For any sign that goes up, you need to have a by-law that has authorised that sign, so it is municipality's responsibility to put them up (the actual signs are usually erected by sub-contractors on order from municipality). You should ask for a copy of the by-law that put that sign up in its place.
For any sign that goes up, you need to have a by-law that has authorised that sign, so it is municipality's responsibility to put them up (the actual signs are usually erected by sub-contractors on order from municipality). You should ask for a copy of the by-law that put that sign up in its place.
"The more laws, the less justice" - Marcus Tullius Cicero
"The hardest thing to explain is the obvious"
Hi racer, Thanks for the comment. I'm kind of by that point...have copies of the by-laws etc, but the issue is who mandates and controls stop signs at railway crossings? The municipality doesn't have any By-Law section covering erection of signs at other than intersections. But I doubt there are any railway crossings controlled only by STOP signs in this municipality. Where that condition does exist (STOP sign at rail crossing), is it the municipality that has it in its' by-laws, and has responsibility for erection and maintenance? The issue has evolved because the municipality has put up a stop sign at a railway crossing that already has railway active warnings (crossing signals and automatic gates). They did this by specifying the stop sign under the By-Law "Intersections" schedule. But it is 60 meters from the nearest intersecting roadway! They made a small note specifying the location, in the by-law where it's supposed to specify the direction of travel! So now the police must issue "fail to stop" tickets under "Stop at Through Highway" rater than "Stop at Railway Crossing" - even though the Highway is over 60 meters away. And they use the double railway stop lines for the "marked stop line", rather than anything related to the intersection. (But its' like shooting fish in a barrel!!) Strange, eh? And to make it even crazier the Municipality has also specified a yield sign for the very same intersection! So you've got one intersection, and 2 control devices specified for it (same road, travel of direction, etc...)!!! Anybody ever seen a stop sign at an already controlled railway crossing?? I'm just trying to find out who has control over what in this situation (and the best way to present this in court). Any help and comments are appreciated...
Hi racer,
Thanks for the comment.
I'm kind of by that point...have copies of the by-laws etc, but the issue is who mandates and controls stop signs at railway crossings?
The municipality doesn't have any By-Law section covering erection of signs at other than intersections. But I doubt there are any railway crossings controlled only by STOP signs in this municipality.
Where that condition does exist (STOP sign at rail crossing), is it the municipality that has it in its' by-laws, and has responsibility for erection and maintenance?
The issue has evolved because the municipality has put up a stop sign at a railway crossing that already has railway active warnings (crossing signals and automatic gates). They did this by specifying the stop sign under the By-Law "Intersections" schedule. But it is 60 meters from the nearest intersecting roadway! They made a small note specifying the location, in the by-law where it's supposed to specify the direction of travel!
So now the police must issue "fail to stop" tickets under "Stop at Through Highway" rater than "Stop at Railway Crossing" - even though the Highway is over 60 meters away. And they use the double railway stop lines for the "marked stop line", rather than anything related to the intersection. (But its' like shooting fish in a barrel!!)
Strange, eh?
And to make it even crazier the Municipality has also specified a yield sign for the very same intersection! So you've got one intersection, and 2 control devices specified for it (same road, travel of direction, etc...)!!!
Anybody ever seen a stop sign at an already controlled railway crossing??
I'm just trying to find out who has control over what in this situation (and the best way to present this in court).
The sign must be within 15m of the intersection to be valid. HTA OREG 615 section 7 If the lights, bells. gates are there but NOT activated, the railway is not controlled at all until those items are activated, hence a vehicle does not have to stop. A stop sign at the railway now makes it a controlled railway and the driver of a vehicle must stop at all times.
Bill_Payer wrote:
They did this by specifying the stop sign under the By-Law "Intersections" schedule. But it is 60 meters from the nearest intersecting roadway!
The sign must be within 15m of the intersection to be valid.
HTA OREG 615 section 7
Anybody ever seen a stop sign at an already controlled railway crossing??
If the lights, bells. gates are there but NOT activated, the railway is not controlled at all until those items are activated, hence a vehicle does not have to stop.
A stop sign at the railway now makes it a controlled railway and the driver of a vehicle must stop at all times.
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca
... must stop if the sign is all red with white lettering I assume? The sign at the tracks down the road from my house is yellow with a smallish red octagon with black "stop" letters below it. Everyone ignores it including the local police.
... must stop if the sign is all red with white lettering I assume? The sign at the tracks down the road from my house is yellow with a smallish red octagon with black "stop" letters below it. Everyone ignores it including the local police.
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