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Radar Manual- No tuning forks and No tracking history
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 9:07 pm 
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So in 2010 Decatur released new Canadian versions of their radar manuals that removed the requirement to test with tuning forks and the requirement for officer to do tracking history.

Does anybody have any information on how this came about?

I have a suspicion that it was probably a "change your manual or we won't buy your units anymore" type of deal, as the USA manuals have never had the same changes made to them.

Could the OPP have been involved as they would probably be the largest users in Ontario? Or maybe it RCMP or some other Canadian police force that was involved in getting the change made?

Anyways I may make some freedom of information requests to see if it's possible to track down the source of the change.

Thanks

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Re: Radar Manual- No tuning forks and No tracking history
PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 9:28 pm 
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Don't they now calibrate them using pacing on the speedometer? I think I read somewhere that not calibrating it using tuning forks was not a problem anymore if they wrote in the notes it was calibrated at the beginning and end of shift on the speedo. I also recall getting that from officers notes in the past.


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Re: Radar Manual- No tuning forks and No tracking history
PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 11:04 pm 
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They just have to follow the test procedure listed in the manual before shift and after shift, which usually just involves pressing a TEST button and making a note that it passed.

However my point is that the USA manuals still have the requirement to use Tuning Forks and the requirement to do a Visual Tracking History, however in the 2010 these requirements suddenly got taken out of the Canadian manual.

So my question is why? Would Decatur just randomly decide to remove something from Canada's manual but leave it USA manual? I doubt it! So I would like to investigate and try to find out who got them to modify their Canadian manuals!

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Re: Radar Manual- No tuning forks and No tracking history
PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 11:11 pm 
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I recommend reading this decision in full; it may answer a lot of your questions.

R. v. Howse, 2012 ONCJ 517 (CanLII)


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Re: Radar Manual- No tuning forks and No tracking history
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 9:21 am 
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iFly55 wrote:
I recommend reading this decision in full; it may answer a lot of your questions. R. v. Howse, 2012 ONCJ 517 (CanLII)

So I understand that the courts have decided that an officer merely has to follow the test procedure in the manual, which no longer involves tuning forks, and I am not disputing that.

But this still does not answer the "who" asked for it to be changed in Canada and "why" did they ask for it to be changed.

The Judge says this in paragraph 25-27 with regards to tuning forks:
" Third, the radar tests. The Appellant alleges that only in Ontario is the Genesis II Select radar not tested with a tuning fork. At the trial the Appellant’s counsel stopped just short of alleging a fraud perpetrated by the government against the people of Ontario. The Appellant submits that the mere fact that the manual does not call for the use of a tuning fork test in Ontario requires that the prosecution explain this omission or else the charge cannot be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. The Appellant brings no expert evidence as to any effect of such an omission on the accuracy of the radar device, only making broad sweeping submissions that if the manual is different in Ontario this must be explained by the prosecution. With respect the learned justice of the peace below properly stated and applied the applicable test here: did the officer properly test and operate the device according to the manufacturer’s specifications. Quite properly she answered this question in the affirmative on the evidence before her.
It seems to me that the Appellant’s submission errs in not understanding where the onus lies here. If the evidence establishes, as here, that the officer operated the device properly and according to the manufacturer’s specifications, then the court is entitled to rely on this evidence unless it is rebutted by some evidence bringing that reliance into question. It is not for the crown to negative every possible factor that could bring the evidence into question. The evidentiary onus shifts to the Appellant who is alleging a basis for an error that lies outside the manufacturer’s manual. This does not affect the overall onus in every such case that requires the crown to prove the charge beyond a reasonable doubt.
Plainly put, the fact that a tuning fork is used in other jurisdictions to test this device is irrelevant provided that the device is, as here, operated in accordance with the manual."

In fact notice the Judge says "The Appellant brings no expert evidence as to any effect of such an omission on the accuracy of the radar device" ...

Had this person had some kind of evidence as to WHY the tuning fork test had been removed from the manual, then this argument might be given some weight.

So that is what I am after ... any information that led up to the manual being changed.

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Re: Radar Manual- No tuning forks and No tracking history
PostPosted: Sun Aug 23, 2015 3:58 pm 
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I just read thru The Law Of Speeding And Speed Detection Devices (Third Edition) by A. Shakoor Manraj & Paul D. Haines.

Notice what they say under Improper Calibration in the 2nd and 3rd paragraph of Chapter 10 (Major Factors That Create Faulty Radar Use):
Attachment:
File comment: Improper Calibration
tuning-forks.jpg
tuning-forks.jpg [ 191.76 KiB | Viewed 1285 times ]


Basically they say that external testing by a tuning fork IS absolutely necessary.

If the Howse case could have brought Manraj and Haines in as expert witnesses, they may have been able to win that case!

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Re: Radar Manual- No tuning forks and No tracking history
PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 12:52 am 
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That was published eight and a half years ago. Perhaps their opinion has changed as technology has changed.

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Re: Radar Manual- No tuning forks and No tracking history
PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 2:15 pm 
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I can assure you, that book is correct and nothing has changed.
I am a calibration manager by profession and I do work on electronic equipment on a daily basis, all electronic measuring equipment are subject to drift and require regular calibration and adjustments to meet published specs.
The reason that part of the manual was removed is because Ontario requested a "customized" version that meets "their requirements"
If you manage to get anything to prove that Ontario requested this change to the manual, you have climbed the mount Everest, good luck, I would love to see that.
Good luck


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Re: Radar Manual- No tuning forks and No tracking history
PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 3:24 pm 
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@observer135 - Do you have any information on Ontario's request, as in who it was (like OPP or some other government division) that asked for the customized version? News articles? Forum posts?

I understand that I am indeed trying to climb Mount Everest, but I cannot find any information as to anybody else having tried to go this route before. Making a Freedom Of Information request to the wrong organization will indeed lead to getting nothing in return, so would be nice if I had an idea on where to start!

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Re: Radar Manual- No tuning forks and No tracking history
PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2015 6:35 pm 
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I am sending an FOIR (Freedom of Information Request) to see if I can find out any more details. It's a long shot but worth a try.

Anybody else want to send one as well? It only costs $5 and if they receive more than one at a time it might make them go searching a little quicker for the info.

I have attached a copy of my FOIR.

Attachment:
File comment: FOIR 1
FOIR_tuning_forks_1.jpg
FOIR_tuning_forks_1.jpg [ 246.15 KiB | Viewed 1174 times ]


Attachment:
File comment: FOIR 2
FOIR_tuning_forks_2.jpg
FOIR_tuning_forks_2.jpg [ 244.34 KiB | Viewed 1174 times ]

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Re: Radar Manual- No tuning forks and No tracking history
PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2015 8:43 pm 
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Just remember. $5 is the application fee. That doesn't include what they charge for the actual copies of documents.


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Re: Radar Manual- No tuning forks and No tracking history
PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2015 9:00 pm 
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Well I guess I only need to worry about that if they actually find something!

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Re: Radar Manual- No tuning forks and No tracking history
PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 4:05 pm 
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Does anyone have a copy of the manuals used for the guns in ontario(or canada) before the 2010 change?


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Re: Radar Manual- No tuning forks and No tracking history
PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 5:55 pm 
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I think (but am not 100% sure) that it was just the same manual in the US and Canada and that there was not a specific seperate one for Canada.

When they put the Canada version out, they just added "not intended for use in Canada" to the US version.

Type the following into Google exactly as I have it:
"genesis ii select radar" site:scribd.com

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Re: Radar Manual- No tuning forks and No tracking history
PostPosted: Thu Oct 15, 2015 6:16 pm 
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Thanks jsherk. I found it. So this is the version for Canada as of 25/Aug/2010. Do you have a copy of the version before the revision in 2010?


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