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West bound turn on Gardiner Ramp
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 5:24 pm 
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Last year I was pulled over or turning right (west) at the now, non-existant island at the base of York (southbound) turning west onto the Gardiner ramp. The HTA states if there are no signs, which there weren't, you can turn at the left of the rightmost curb. The right lane turns right but the middle lane feeds into the island where you can go straight or pass the entrance into the westbound ramp and turn right onto lakeshore. They have since removed the island which now makes the right turn illegal. My question is, do I have an argument as the island is now gone and perhaps the HTA didn't cover my infraction.

Thoughts?

Thanks is advance!


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 11:20 am 
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The way I see it is that you are charged based on the circumstances on the offense date. On one occasion, I got nailed for speeding in an area where they (are you sitting down?) raised :shock: the speed limit b/w the offense date and the trial date so I looked into it 8)

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 11:27 am 
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Just to be sure, which section were you charged under?


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 12:09 pm 
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Oh yea, sorry, HTA 141(2) improper right turn


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:36 pm 
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Just for my own recall here... that traffic island forced everyone in the right lane to take the Gardiner ramp, which is what you're saying, correct? If someone in the right lane would've had to drive over the island to get to Lakeshore Boulevard, I think you're in the clear with this one.

As FiReSTaRT said, the ticket is based on what happened at the time. Removal of the island at a later date doesn't matter. Where was the officer when you made the turn? As long as you turned into the right-most lane and didn't cut anyone off, I don't see a problem. You should be able to beat this in court, if I understand the circumstances correctly.

Have you made a disclosure request yet?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 10:41 am 
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It's a little more confusing. I was in the left lane and moved over to the right lane where the island was. Cars behind me would be taking the right turn and then I turned right at the island. The cop was in the left hand lane of the west bound ramp and nope, I didn't ask for disclosure, and it is probably too late as my court date is next Monday.

Thanks


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 12, 2009 6:51 pm 
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That makes it a bit difficult. Maybe show up early and see if the Crown is willing to offer you a plea-bargain to a municipal by-law infraction. I think that's your best option at this point. You could try to argue that you made two separate and distinct movements - first the lane change, then the turn. That's the only defence I can see if it goes to trial, but I'm not really sure it will work.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 9:29 am 
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Thanks, that's what I figured. In the past, they usually lower the charge. I thought since the island has since been removed that perhaps there was a defence everyone was using and that is why they removed it. In any event, I will hope the cop doesn't show.

Thanks for you help.
Cheers


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