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Speeding ticket (>15km/h, but I have some empirical data)
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 11:09 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2011 10:53 pm
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Hi

I got a speeding ticket other day. The officer told me I am over 25 km/h but he said "here is a deal". I have changed it to over 15 km/h (52 dollars) (he crossed on the ticket too to make it obvious). Since this is my first speeding ticket, I do not know what impact it will have on my insurance rate in Ontario?

Secondly, I have some empirical data. I filled a gas about 56 km before the police officer pulled me over. I had credit card receipt with time on it. Then police officer wrote a ticket with time too. The difference in time and distance gave me an average speed. It was 78 km/h. Google suggests that I should be traveling this distance in 45 minutes (average speed of 76/km), but I travel in 43 minutes. This indicated that I traveled in just over 2 km/h over the speed for the last 43 minutes. Would this make my case any stronger to appeal?

Any advice would be highly appreciated. I never done court case, I have a temptation of challenging police officer for his record as I never over speed. I hardly travel over 5 km/h in some cases. Thats it. My driver history is clean!!

Thank you for your valuable comments and suggestions

Regards,
London


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Re: Speeding ticket (>15km/h, but I have some empirical data
PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 8:23 am 
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Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2008 7:21 am
Posts: 2933
Location: In YOUR rearview mirror!
There are loads of time variables that are not accounted for in the calculation you are doing from the receipt.
- printing receipt
- clerk handing to you
- walking to vehicle
- getting in vehicle
- setting wallet/purse down, taking off jacket, setting drink down
- putting on seatbelt
- starting vehicle
- starting to get mobile, getting to edge of highway and stopping
- checking for other traffic, waiting if necessary
- turning and acclerating up to whatever speed
- slowing down for other vehicles you come up on
- waiting to pass
- slowing down to see scenery, animal
- and so many more could list, so etc....
Although some may seem minor in time, it all eats up time quickly

TIME - itself, rarely are 2 clocks the same (cash register receipt, car clock, officer's watch etc..)
Officer could have wrote ticket at time of "stop" as opposed to time of seeing your vehicle on radar (which doesnt matter for the offence notice)

There is a couple time over distance things that would be accurate:
- directly from above when the vehicle passes point A and crosses point B (aircraft enforcement) this will give a true average speed
- start the timing while driving at a constant speed (cruise), crossing point A and then cross point B and stopping the clock, with absolutely no variance in speed.

And if you truly believe in your "google" info....google from Los Angelas, CA to Honuoulu, HI and one of the directions is "Kayak across the Pacific Ocean Entering Hawaii 2,756 mi"

_________________
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca


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Re: Speeding ticket (>15km/h, but I have some empirical data
PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 8:43 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:49 pm
Posts: 2110
Location: Ontario
I don't even see how demonstrating your average speed provides any type of defence. Your average speed, by definition, would consist of speeds higher and lower than the average itself. You could have been easily speeding when the officer observed you, yet still maintained an average speed close to limit. To disprove the speeding allegation, you would need evidence supporting your maximum speed and/or actual speed at the time of the offence.


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Re: Speeding ticket (>15km/h, but I have some empirical data
PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 9:09 am 
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Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2011 10:53 pm
Posts: 2
Thank you for the feedbacks. I appreciate all your thoughts and suggestions.

Here is my question. The objective of police officer to give ticket to someone to warn him/her not to speed any more. My data demonstrate that I did not speed and I am 110 percent sure I did not speed at the time when the police officer gave me the ticket. I never speed and will not speed at all. I want to challenge his record. In most cases, people who get ticket are those who are rushing to get to point B.

What are the consequences if I chose to fight to the court. Lets think the worse case scenario, I loose the case. Then what would happen to my fine etc? Any pointer would be helpful. Thank you.

Regards
London


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Re: Speeding ticket (>15km/h, but I have some empirical data
PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 9:31 am 
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Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2011 11:31 am
Posts: 684
The objective of the police officer is to enforce the laws. Either by way of warning someone or giving them a ticket. You got somewhere in between when he reduced the fine at roadside. If you plead not guilty, the prosecutor will probably amend the speed on the ticket up to the original 25 over and go from there. If convicted you will get the fine for 25 km/h over and the demerit points to go with it.


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Re: Speeding ticket (>15km/h, but I have some empirical data
PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 9:48 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:49 pm
Posts: 2110
Location: Ontario
london wrote:
My data demonstrate that I did not speed and I am 110 percent sure I did not speed at the time when the police officer gave me the ticket. I never speed and will not speed at all.

No, your data doesn't demonstrate that. You don't know you maximum speed, just your average speed. Even by your own calculations you were going 2 km/hr over the limit.

london wrote:
What are the consequences if I chose to fight to the court. Lets think the worse case scenario, I loose the case. Then what would happen to my fine etc? Any pointer would be helpful. Thank you.

As Decatur said, many jurisdictions allow the Crown to bump the speeding ticket back up to the full amount. This would result in a higher fine and demerit points. Even if they proceeded with 15 over, you could still be facing a higher fine, since the statutory fines handed out by the Courts are more than the set fines (where you just pay the ticket).

In summary:
15 over ticket: $37.50 fine, $52.50 total, zero demerit points
15 over trial: $45 fine, $60 total, zero demerit points
25 over trial: $112.50 fine, $142.50 total, 3 demerit points


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