was pulled over on 401 around cobourg (3 lanes). I was on the passing lane with one vehicle in the front and couple others on my back. I'm not sure how fast I was travelling but definitely not 135km/h (according to the initial conversation with the officer). The car in front of me merged to the middle lane and I was planning to merge once I passed him, but unfortunately was pulled over 5 secs later. The officer told me that the speed was 135 according to radar (? I guess cuz there is an officer on the bridge over the highway with some devices). He took my license and registration and after a while, he came back and said he reduced the speed to 115km/h with 50~ fine. I left after that and now considering options I have. There are several things that I doubt: 1) First, I was in the middle of the flow on the passing lane and there are vehicles in front/after me. The only thing I could do is driving in the speed of everyone does (or I will be rear-ended). 2) Second, there are three vehicles who were originally in the passing lane but decide to pass on the far right lane. They were not pulled over at all! Should I go for a trial? =================NOTES: I saw another 4~5 were pulled over around that area later on my way, so please proceed with caution in that area (cobourg/Port Hope)
was pulled over on 401 around cobourg (3 lanes). I was on the passing lane with one vehicle in the front and couple others on my back. I'm not sure how fast I was travelling but definitely not 135km/h (according to the initial conversation with the officer). The car in front of me merged to the middle lane and I was planning to merge once I passed him, but unfortunately was pulled over 5 secs later.
The officer told me that the speed was 135 according to radar (? I guess cuz there is an officer on the bridge over the highway with some devices). He took my license and registration and after a while, he came back and said he reduced the speed to 115km/h with 50~ fine. I left after that and now considering options I have.
There are several things that I doubt:
1) First, I was in the middle of the flow on the passing lane and there are vehicles in front/after me. The only thing I could do is driving in the speed of everyone does (or I will be rear-ended).
2) Second, there are three vehicles who were originally in the passing lane but decide to pass on the far right lane. They were not pulled over at all!
Should I go for a trial?
=================NOTES:
I saw another 4~5 were pulled over around that area later on my way, so please proceed with caution in that area (cobourg/Port Hope)
I recommend that you plead Not Guilty and request a trial with the officer present. Once you get your Notice of Trial, then you can request disclosure (officers notes and information about radar device used). BAD NEWS The reasons you give above in (1) and (2) are not helpful to your ticket at all... they are irrelevent. If you go to trial and LOSE you will be charged with the original higher speed of 135 (if the officer has that in his notes). 15 over is 0 demerits but can still cause your insurance to go up, so over three years how much will ticket really cost you? GOOD NEWS Both officers need to show for trial to testify. You have the right to see disclosure (officers notes) before you go to trial and decide if there is a good defense available. You can plead guilty to the 15 over charge at any time up to the trial.
I recommend that you plead Not Guilty and request a trial with the officer present. Once you get your Notice of Trial, then you can request disclosure (officers notes and information about radar device used).
BAD NEWS
The reasons you give above in (1) and (2) are not helpful to your ticket at all... they are irrelevent.
If you go to trial and LOSE you will be charged with the original higher speed of 135 (if the officer has that in his notes).
15 over is 0 demerits but can still cause your insurance to go up, so over three years how much will ticket really cost you?
GOOD NEWS
Both officers need to show for trial to testify.
You have the right to see disclosure (officers notes) before you go to trial and decide if there is a good defense available.
You can plead guilty to the 15 over charge at any time up to the trial.
Thank you Jsherk! So when I request the disclosure from prose. should I ask them to clearify how many officers are involved? Will they hide saying there is only one PO?
jsherk wrote:
I recommend that you plead Not Guilty and request a trial with the officer present. Once you get your Notice of Trial, then you can request disclosure (officers notes and information about radar device used).
BAD NEWS
The reasons you give above in (1) and (2) are not helpful to your ticket at all... they are irrelevent.
If you go to trial and LOSE you will be charged with the original higher speed of 135 (if the officer has that in his notes).
15 over is 0 demerits but can still cause your insurance to go up, so over three years how much will ticket really cost you?
GOOD NEWS
Both officers need to show for trial to testify.
You have the right to see disclosure (officers notes) before you go to trial and decide if there is a good defense available.
You can plead guilty to the 15 over charge at any time up to the trial.
Thank you Jsherk! So when I request the disclosure from prose. should I ask them to clearify how many officers are involved? Will they hide saying there is only one PO?
Just request the "notes of all officers involved" and the "make, model, serial number and manual of speed measuring device used". They should send you the notes of both, as one officers needs to testify about your speed and about the device used and the other officer needs to testify about identifying you and about writing the ticket.
Just request the "notes of all officers involved" and the "make, model, serial number and manual of speed measuring device used".
They should send you the notes of both, as one officers needs to testify about your speed and about the device used and the other officer needs to testify about identifying you and about writing the ticket.
Just request the "notes of all officers involved" and the "make, model, serial number and manual of speed measuring device used".
They should send you the notes of both, as one officers needs to testify about your speed and about the device used and the other officer needs to testify about identifying you and about writing the ticket.
Then I may have to rely on notes and whatever other available things...I think I may go for a trial if there are flaws in notes or something...if not then I may just pay the ticket
Decatur wrote:
Just a heads up. It's not likely that you will get a manual or testing instructions any more due to a recent court decision.
Then I may have to rely on notes and whatever other available things...I think I may go for a trial if there are flaws in notes or something...if not then I may just pay the ticket
Officers reduce tickets on a regular basis. I only issued full tickets to someone who talked their way into it. A reduced ticket does not indicate that the officer is unsure of the charge and would not be a 'positive' for a defendant at trial.
Officers reduce tickets on a regular basis. I only issued full tickets to someone who talked their way into it. A reduced ticket does not indicate that the officer is unsure of the charge and would not be a 'positive' for a defendant at trial.
Former Ontario Police Officer. Advice will become less relevant as the time goes by !
In Ontario the courts have allowed officers to reduce tickets at the road side, and if you take it to trial and lose, then they will raise it back up to the higher original rate of speed. This is definitely NOT a defense in Ontario.
In Ontario the courts have allowed officers to reduce tickets at the road side, and if you take it to trial and lose, then they will raise it back up to the higher original rate of speed. This is definitely NOT a defense in Ontario.
Thank you again. I will request a disclosure to see if there is anyway to find 'flaws'. If not, I'm gonna pay the reduced ticket.
jsherk wrote:
In Ontario the courts have allowed officers to reduce tickets at the road side, and if you take it to trial and lose, then they will raise it back up to the higher original rate of speed. This is definitely NOT a defense in Ontario.
Thank you again. I will request a disclosure to see if there is anyway to find 'flaws'. If not, I'm gonna pay the reduced ticket.
Thank you sir for your explanation. I will see if there is anything I could argue or I will pay the fine.
argyll wrote:
Officers reduce tickets on a regular basis. I only issued full tickets to someone who talked their way into it. A reduced ticket does not indicate that the officer is unsure of the charge and would not be a 'positive' for a defendant at trial.
Thank you sir for your explanation. I will see if there is anything I could argue or I will pay the fine.
You'll not likely get a better offer at Early Resolution...if an officer gave you a 15 over at the roadside you got the gift already...there's a reason 99% percent of people pay their 15 overs...
You'll not likely get a better offer at Early Resolution...if an officer gave you a 15 over at the roadside you got the gift already...there's a reason 99% percent of people pay their 15 overs...
I'm going to the court in the coming week... requested Disclosure back in Nov but haven't got it yet... Can i request a stay since I'm not getting a disclosure..or even get the case dismissed... thanks!
I'm going to the court in the coming week...
requested Disclosure back in Nov but haven't got it yet...
Can i request a stay since I'm not getting a disclosure..or even get the case dismissed...
Have you followed up on the disclosure request? If not, you will likely get an adjournment. The prosecutor may bring the disclosure to the trial and may ask that the trial proceed. You say that you cannot proceed as you need time to review the disclosure so you can make a full answer and defence. The other possibility is that the prosecutor never received disclosure from the officer(s). If so, the officer(s) will likely bring his or their notes (depending on who shows up). The prosecutor will suggest you meet with the officer(s) to discuss the notes, but you should still be asking for an adjournment. If you have followed up diligently (say, three or four times) and can show you've done so, the prosecutor may be willing to withdraw the charge, particularly if the prosecutor has been following up with the officer(s) and has not received anything from him/them. You should certainly ask for it to be withdrawn, as you've done what's in your power to keep things moving.
Have you followed up on the disclosure request?
If not, you will likely get an adjournment. The prosecutor may bring the disclosure to the trial and may ask that the trial proceed. You say that you cannot proceed as you need time to review the disclosure so you can make a full answer and defence. The other possibility is that the prosecutor never received disclosure from the officer(s). If so, the officer(s) will likely bring his or their notes (depending on who shows up). The prosecutor will suggest you meet with the officer(s) to discuss the notes, but you should still be asking for an adjournment.
If you have followed up diligently (say, three or four times) and can show you've done so, the prosecutor may be willing to withdraw the charge, particularly if the prosecutor has been following up with the officer(s) and has not received anything from him/them. You should certainly ask for it to be withdrawn, as you've done what's in your power to keep things moving.
If not, you will likely get an adjournment. The prosecutor may bring the disclosure to the trial and may ask that the trial proceed. You say that you cannot proceed as you need time to review the disclosure so you can make a full answer and defence. The other possibility is that the prosecutor never received disclosure from the officer(s). If so, the officer(s) will likely bring his or their notes (depending on who shows up). The prosecutor will suggest you meet with the officer(s) to discuss the notes, but you should still be asking for an adjournment.
If you have followed up diligently (say, three or four times) and can show you've done so, the prosecutor may be willing to withdraw the charge, particularly if the prosecutor has been following up with the officer(s) and has not received anything from him/them. You should certainly ask for it to be withdrawn, as you've done what's in your power to keep things moving.
UPDATE: Went to the trial, police showed up but left before the trial (don't know why...)...Ticket withdrawn.. thanks everyone for your help and drive safe!
UPDATE:
Went to the trial, police showed up but left before the trial (don't know why...)...Ticket withdrawn..
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