Left turn collision, who is at fault.

guest526
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Left turn collision, who is at fault.

by: guest526 on
Wed Oct 06, 2010 1:07 am

I need some help guys. I was involved in a collision on Steeles and Dufferin.

- It was around 4:30 PM, raining, wet road.
- I was facing East on Steeles and had a green light.
- The light turned yellow
- All the cars going west have come to a stop
- The center westbound lane was clear
- I began to proceed through the turn
- About 75% through the intersection I was struck by a wesbound moving car.
- There was no police at the scene, both our cars were taken to the collision reporting center.
- I know normally the left turning car is 100% at fault,
BUT

At Steeles and Dufferin thre is no visibility 50m east of the intersection, because the road there has a steep downward slope. So when I looked to see if the road was clear and safe to proceed, it appeared to be because I could not see past 50m. And the other car was obviously speeding.

Would that make any difference in the fault determination, or am I screwed?


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by: Radar Identified on
Wed Oct 06, 2010 6:29 pm

According to the Fault Determination Rules, you are 100% at fault, unless the other driver ran a red, or should have stopped for the amber. (Section 15(2) of the Fault Determination Rules.) The key thing now is what was said in the police report(s). As far as fault goes, the other circumstances you mentioned (visibility, etc) won't change it. In fact, the Fault Determination Rules specifically say:
3. The degree of fault of an insured is determined without reference to,

(a) the circumstances in which the incident occurs, including weather conditions, road conditions, visibility or the actions of pedestrians; or
As for speeding, the other driver would've had to have been driving unreasonably fast for the conditions, and you'd have to prove it. Simply claiming that he was speeding is not sufficient. You'd need someone with formal training to prove it, such as a police officer doing speed calculations based on collision damage. Even then, exceeding the posted speed limit does not really "shift the fault" to the speeder.
* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca


guest526
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by: guest526 on
Wed Oct 06, 2010 8:29 pm

Thank you.

The insurance adjuster said 100% my fault.

Do I have any options at this time?


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by: syrous on
Thu Jan 06, 2011 10:51 am

Just shows you how the rules can be interpreted.
My wife was involved in an exactly same accident, except she was going through the intersection when a bus started making a left turn. She got a ticket for running red light and the adjuster said it was 100% her fault. Same situation, different outcome.
I guess if you had a witness that can say the other guy ran red you have a chance to change the outcome, but I'm not really sure if it always works or only if you are buddy-buddy with the cop at the scene.


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by: Radar Identified on
Thu Jan 06, 2011 3:09 pm

Actually, if someone disobeys a traffic signal, it becomes 100% their fault, regardless of who was turning. The OP seems to have turned when the light was amber, not red - so it becomes 100% his fault for turning in front of oncoming traffic. It was likely that there was not enough evidence for the adjuster to believe that the other driver disobeyed a red light in the case of the OP.
* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
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