The first is at Steeles Avenue and Jane Street in Toronto/Vaughan. When travelling eastbound on Steeles, there are two lanes. Once passing Jane, there are three lanes. The problem is, the lanes don't line up. If you were to extend the lane markers through the intersection, they would cut the middle lane in half. I'll see drivers do a wide range of things. Sometimes drivers in the right lane will continue into the right lane, other times they'll continue into the middle lane. Sometimes drivers in the left lane will continue into the left left, other times they'll continue into the middle lane. Many times, nobody ends up in the middle lane at all. What does the law say here? Where are you supposed to go from either lane?
The second is exiting Saint Elizabeth Catholic High School in Thornhill. This one is a little tricky to explain, but I'll do my best. There is a pedestrian crosswalk with traffic signals right above the crosswalk. Quite a distance away from the crosswalk (maybe 10-15 metres) on either side there is the solid white line for traffic to stop. In between the two solid white lines, there is an entrance driveway and an exit driveway at the school. The northern driveway on the screenshot is the exit driveway. Cars exiting this driveway and turning left will find themselves right at the edge of the marked pedestrian crosswalk. The traffic lights are immediately above their heads and can be quite hard to see. Most drivers will stop if there is a red light, even though they're now basically in the middle of the intersection between the two thick lines. I have seen some drivers wait for pedestrians and then continue, or just go through if there are no pedestrians. What does the law say here? The only signage when exiting the parking lot is a stop sign. There are no lights facing the parking lot, only perpendicular to the driveway on New Westminster.
Thanks for the help!
- Saint Elizabeth CHS.jpg (213.63 KiB) Viewed 347 times
- Jane and Steeles.jpg (202.93 KiB) Viewed 347 times
I'm not at Steeles and Jane often, but would make the same suggestion. If necessary, I'd slow down and let the people beside me get ahead. That way, I couldn't pic the same lane at the same time.
I get why the stop bars are where they are as there are minimum distance requirements and you don't want them within the accesses to the school. I'm really curious how long the amber light is given that there is a significant gap between the stop bar and the lights. The clearance time would be huge.
As for your original question, anyone turning left from the driveway would be within the intersection as they are past the stop bars. As such, if the light were red, they would be allowed to proceed through the signal. That being said, you can't hit any pedestrians who are crossing the street. Rule number one in traffic - don't hit anything or anyone.
That's my take on it, others in the enforcement field may have more insight.
Former Ontario Police Officer. Advice will become less relevant as the time goes by !
This is what most people do and it's what I've always done; however, I've never been the first car out so I've always stopped behind others. In practice, given the nature of the location, i.e. rush hour, school zone, kids everywhere, it's the prudent thing to do. I'm still curious what the theory would say and what laws technically apply.argyll wrote:If I turned left and there was a red light I would stop. No question. Err on the side of safety each and every time.
If this intersection had lights in both directions, and traffic coming out of the school had a green light, they would be allowed to turn left provided that pedestrians were not on the crosswalk, and they'd be fine. In any left turn at an intersection with lights, you are at some point passing underneath red lights. Would it not be the case here? You have a stop sign. You stop, wait til it's clear, and then go.