No, but with that same search above, one of the other results is the US version.
Re: Radar Manual- No tuning forks and No tracking history
No, but with that same search above, one of the other results is the US version.
+++ This is not legal advice, only my opinion +++
Re: Radar Manual- No tuning forks and No tracking history
Okay, too bad. would be great to see the before and after :) BTW...have you heard back on your FOIP request at all?
Okay, too bad. would be great to see the before and after 
BTW...have you heard back on your FOIP request at all?
Re: Radar Manual- No tuning forks and No tracking history
All I got back was letter saying "we got your request". I would not anticipate a very fast response, but will post when I hear something.
All I got back was letter saying "we got your request". I would not anticipate a very fast response, but will post when I hear something.
+++ This is not legal advice, only my opinion +++
Re: Radar Manual- No tuning forks and No tracking history
So here is a case in Saskatchewan appeals court that is a step in the right direction for tuning forks. R v Abrametz, 2013 SKQB 105 (original appeal) http://canlii.ca/t/fwsg0 Abrametz v Canada, 2014 SKCA 84 (appeal of the appeal) http://canlii.ca/t/g8n7b
So here is a case in Saskatchewan appeals court that is a step in the right direction for tuning forks.
R v Abrametz, 2013 SKQB 105 (original appeal)
Abrametz v Canada, 2014 SKCA 84 (appeal of the appeal)
+++ This is not legal advice, only my opinion +++
Re: Radar Manual- No tuning forks and No tracking history
Not all U.S. States required the tuning fork test, even when we did. It was either Michigan or Florida that did not require the test to be done. I am sure Ontario stopped using the tuning forks back in '07. Calibration is done on a technician's bench somewhere, police officers test the device according to the manufacturers instructions, they don't calibrate it. Just turning on the device is not the only test to be done during the testing phase. They shouldn't make it seem like the police are only turning it on and hitting the test button as the whole test, it's not. The road test phase is very important. If the road test is not done, as well, then the device was not tested properly.
Not all U.S. States required the tuning fork test, even when we did. It was either Michigan or Florida that did not require the test to be done. I am sure Ontario stopped using the tuning forks back in '07. Calibration is done on a technician's bench somewhere, police officers test the device according to the manufacturers instructions, they don't calibrate it. Just turning on the device is not the only test to be done during the testing phase. They shouldn't make it seem like the police are only turning it on and hitting the test button as the whole test, it's not. The road test phase is very important. If the road test is not done, as well, then the device was not tested properly.
Re: Radar Manual- No tuning forks and No tracking history
As far as being tested on a technicians bench, if you try a Freedom of Information Request to any police force in Ontario to get copies of "repair, maintenace, testing, or calibration records" for any radar device, you will be told that they do not have any and therefore do not have to give to you what they do not have. I agree that a road test would be an extra test that would help prove reliability, but manuals do not require it. However if the manual only says they have to press the test button (and nothing about a road test), then that is all the officers are doing... turn it on, press test, DONE! And since that is all the manual says, that is all the JP's and Judge's require them to prove they did.
As far as being tested on a technicians bench, if you try a Freedom of Information Request to any police force in Ontario to get copies of "repair, maintenace, testing, or calibration records" for any radar device, you will be told that they do not have any and therefore do not have to give to you what they do not have.
I agree that a road test would be an extra test that would help prove reliability, but manuals do not require it. However if the manual only says they have to press the test button (and nothing about a road test), then that is all the officers are doing... turn it on, press test, DONE!
And since that is all the manual says, that is all the JP's and Judge's require them to prove they did.
+++ This is not legal advice, only my opinion +++
Re: Radar Manual- No tuning forks and No tracking history
The road test is in the manual.
The road test is in the manual.
Re: Radar Manual- No tuning forks and No tracking history
Not for the Genesis Handheld Directional (GHD/Scout). There is only requirement to press test button and nothing else. But I do see that the road test requirement is in the Genesis II Select manual.
Not for the Genesis Handheld Directional (GHD/Scout). There is only requirement to press test button and nothing else.
But I do see that the road test requirement is in the Genesis II Select manual.
+++ This is not legal advice, only my opinion +++
Re: Radar Manual- No tuning forks and No tracking history
Well so far in this thread it was only discussing the Genesis II, of course you don't do a road test on a stationary radar.
Well so far in this thread it was only discussing the Genesis II, of course you don't do a road test on a stationary radar.
Re: Radar Manual- No tuning forks and No tracking history
I guess I got my manuals and threads confused... sorry!
I guess I got my manuals and threads confused... sorry!
+++ This is not legal advice, only my opinion +++
Re: Radar Manual- No tuning forks and No tracking history
Tuning forks have not been used here since '07. Even when they were required here, they were not required in all U.S. states, either Florida or Michigan never required the tuning fork test (I forget which one). Tracking history is still required, they just took it out of the manual (I am a little stumped on that one, it's not in the manual yet it is still required)
Tuning forks have not been used here since '07. Even when they were required here, they were not required in all U.S. states, either Florida or Michigan never required the tuning fork test (I forget which one). Tracking history is still required, they just took it out of the manual (I am a little stumped on that one, it's not in the manual yet it is still required)
Re: Radar Manual- No tuning forks and No tracking history
A road test, for moving radar, is 100% required. It always has been required and always will be required.
A road test, for moving radar, is 100% required. It always has been required and always will be required.
Re: Radar Manual- No tuning forks and No tracking history
I am aware of the issue with tuning forks. The purpose of this thread was to try and track down who decided to get the tuning fork test removed from the canadian manual even though it is still in the usa manual. Do you have case law stating that tracking history is still required even though it is not in the manual? And by tracking history do you mean "I observed vehicle going faster than posted speed" as opposed to a visual estimate of the speed? Thanks
I am aware of the issue with tuning forks. The purpose of this thread was to try and track down who decided to get the tuning fork test removed from the canadian manual even though it is still in the usa manual.
Do you have case law stating that tracking history is still required even though it is not in the manual?
And by tracking history do you mean "I observed vehicle going faster than posted speed" as opposed to a visual estimate of the speed?
Thanks
+++ This is not legal advice, only my opinion +++
Re: Radar Manual- No tuning forks and No tracking history
So here is an interesting approach for stationary/handheld radar: In cross-examination of the officer you can ask if they used tuning forks to test the device to which they will say no. You can then ask if they tested it against a vehicle of known speed to which they will also say no (since it is not required by the manual for stationary radar). In closing arguments, you can then use the case law I posted above (Abrametz v Canada, 2014 SKCA 84) and reference paragraph 25 where it talks about using tuning forks as a substitute for checking against a vehicle of known speed. Since neither test was performed, there is no proof that device was accurate.
So here is an interesting approach for stationary/handheld radar:
In cross-examination of the officer you can ask if they used tuning forks to test the device to which they will say no.
You can then ask if they tested it against a vehicle of known speed to which they will also say no (since it is not required by the manual for stationary radar).
In closing arguments, you can then use the case law I posted above (Abrametz v Canada, 2014 SKCA 84) and reference paragraph 25 where it talks about using tuning forks as a substitute for checking against a vehicle of known speed. Since neither test was performed, there is no proof that device was accurate.
+++ This is not legal advice, only my opinion +++
Re: Radar Manual- No tuning forks and No tracking history
1- That's a Saskatewan case and isn't binding in Ontario at all. 2- It appears that whatever radar they were using, still required the use of tuning forks for testing. (Some brands still do)
1- That's a Saskatewan case and isn't binding in Ontario at all.
2- It appears that whatever radar they were using, still required the use of tuning forks for testing. (Some brands still do)
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