Hi there, would appreciate if someone can speak to the possibility of this ticket being quashed. Nutshell: the officer's notes are about failure to produce a permit, with the corresponding set fine of $85. However, the HTA section cited is 128, for speeding. Went through a radar trap and was signalled to pull over. Was told by the officer that I was going 20 km/h over the limit, and asked to produce license and registration. I keep a photocopy of the registration in the car (which I understand is allowed, a "true copy"). On the backside of the photocopy is only the license plate renewal sticker(s) that I stick there when I get my plates renewed. The officer tells me that instead of giving me a ticket for 20+ km/h over and 3 demerit points, they have written the ticket for having an "incomplete" registration, saying that the photocopy, while allowed, is missing the backside information. I appreciate the lesser fine (no demerits) and drive off. Upon looking at the ticket later, I see that the officer's notes are about failing to produce a permit, with an $85 fine - that correlates to the correct set fine for a violation of HTA s. 7 (permit requirements). But on the ticket, s. 128 (speeding) is noted as the HTA violation. There are no comments anywhere about speeding. Clearly this doesn't match. I think because the officer was running a radar trap, that is what was on their mind when filling out that section of the ticket. 1. The backside of the registration is the blank sections that need to be filled in if you sell the car (transfer of ownership) or change of address. I never photocopied that part. Is that truly required information for a vehicle registration? I do have the plate sticker there. 2. Can I have the ticket quashed based on the charge not matching the ticket? The officer's notes and set fine correlate to a s.7 violation. But s. 128 is cited on the ticket. Does this amount to a "fatal error"? It seems to me to be substantive information that needs to be correct on a ticket. At least it could be argued that, based on the ticket, I cannot understand what I have actually been charged with. If there is a chance of having the ticket quashed, what is the best way to go about doing that? If I go to a pre-trial meeting and alert them to the error, then it could be amended before the trial. If I go to trial, and assuming the officer is present, their notes would be about speeding and the incomplete permit and I run the risk of being convicted of speeding, (I am charged with s. 128 after all on the ticket), and getting 3 demerits in the process. The other option, similar to London v. Young, is to request trial, not show up and be convicted (deemed not to dispute charge). Under this scenario, I would be convicted of s. 128 for speeding, to which I would appeal and say: "my ticket and the set fine says it is about a permit violation, why was I convicted for speeding? The conviction is in error." What is the best route to take here? Thanks.
Hi there, would appreciate if someone can speak to the possibility of this ticket being quashed. Nutshell: the officer's notes are about failure to produce a permit, with the corresponding set fine of $85. However, the HTA section cited is 128, for speeding.
Went through a radar trap and was signalled to pull over. Was told by the officer that I was going 20 km/h over the limit, and asked to produce license and registration. I keep a photocopy of the registration in the car (which I understand is allowed, a "true copy"). On the backside of the photocopy is only the license plate renewal sticker(s) that I stick there when I get my plates renewed. The officer tells me that instead of giving me a ticket for 20+ km/h over and 3 demerit points, they have written the ticket for having an "incomplete" registration, saying that the photocopy, while allowed, is missing the backside information. I appreciate the lesser fine (no demerits) and drive off.
Upon looking at the ticket later, I see that the officer's notes are about failing to produce a permit, with an $85 fine - that correlates to the correct set fine for a violation of HTA s. 7 (permit requirements). But on the ticket, s. 128 (speeding) is noted as the HTA violation. There are no comments anywhere about speeding. Clearly this doesn't match. I think because the officer was running a radar trap, that is what was on their mind when filling out that section of the ticket.
1. The backside of the registration is the blank sections that need to be filled in if you sell the car (transfer of ownership) or change of address. I never photocopied that part. Is that truly required information for a vehicle registration? I do have the plate sticker there.
2. Can I have the ticket quashed based on the charge not matching the ticket? The officer's notes and set fine correlate to a s.7 violation. But s. 128 is cited on the ticket. Does this amount to a "fatal error"? It seems to me to be substantive information that needs to be correct on a ticket. At least it could be argued that, based on the ticket, I cannot understand what I have actually been charged with.
If there is a chance of having the ticket quashed, what is the best way to go about doing that? If I go to a pre-trial meeting and alert them to the error, then it could be amended before the trial. If I go to trial, and assuming the officer is present, their notes would be about speeding and the incomplete permit and I run the risk of being convicted of speeding, (I am charged with s. 128 after all on the ticket), and getting 3 demerits in the process. The other option, similar to London v. Young, is to request trial, not show up and be convicted (deemed not to dispute charge). Under this scenario, I would be convicted of s. 128 for speeding, to which I would appeal and say: "my ticket and the set fine says it is about a permit violation, why was I convicted for speeding? The conviction is in error."
Interesting. The officer may have pre-filled in tickets before setting up. I don't see that it is a fatal error as there is a charge listed on the ticket presumably with the correct fine amount etc. What you have is a disclosure that doesn't match the charge and so you could argue that you can't prepare a defence to the charge as issued. This is likely only to buy you an adjournment charged against the crown.
Interesting. The officer may have pre-filled in tickets before setting up. I don't see that it is a fatal error as there is a charge listed on the ticket presumably with the correct fine amount etc. What you have is a disclosure that doesn't match the charge and so you could argue that you can't prepare a defence to the charge as issued. This is likely only to buy you an adjournment charged against the crown.
Former Ontario Police Officer. Advice will become less relevant as the time goes by !
Thanks for the reply. Any thoughts on the process of requesting a trial, not showing up and being convicted, and then appealing on the basis of wrongful conviction (for speeding when the ticket is clearly about the permit)?
Thanks for the reply.
Any thoughts on the process of requesting a trial, not showing up and being convicted, and then appealing on the basis of wrongful conviction (for speeding when the ticket is clearly about the permit)?
I thought you said the ticket was for speeding. The disclosure was about the permit. If you plan to challenge the fact that you weren't speeding then you would have to go to court and defend yourself. Bottom line is you are charged with an offence with a correct ticket for that charge; you now have the opportunity to defend yourself against that charge. The notes do not form part of the ticket. Just to be clear - is the charge written on the ticket for 'Speeding' with sec 128 listed ?
I thought you said the ticket was for speeding. The disclosure was about the permit. If you plan to challenge the fact that you weren't speeding then you would have to go to court and defend yourself. Bottom line is you are charged with an offence with a correct ticket for that charge; you now have the opportunity to defend yourself against that charge.
The notes do not form part of the ticket.
Just to be clear - is the charge written on the ticket for 'Speeding' with sec 128 listed ?
Former Ontario Police Officer. Advice will become less relevant as the time goes by !
@argyll, To clarify, this is what is written on the ticket in each section. In "quotes" is what the officer has written. Did commit the offence of: "Fail to surrender permit for motor vehicle." Contrary to: "Highway Traffic Act" Section: "128" Set fine of: "$85.00" / Total Payable: "$110.00" But, as per above, s.128 is about speeding and has nothing to do with "fail to surrender permit". Again, I believe the officer wrote s.128 simply because they were operating a radar trap at the time and that is what was likely on their mind. So, the whole point is, what really IS the ticket for? Speeding? If so, the set fine is wrong. Failure to surrender permit? If so, the HTA section cited is wrong. Either way, the ticket is misleading, inconsistent, confusing, incorrect... Effectively, the argument is that the ticket is not "complete and regular on its face." Per London v Young (which was about incorrect set fines on a bunch of tickets), the judge states in paragraph 30: "The Oxford English Dictionary, 2nd ed., Vol. XIII, at p. 523, contains a number of definitions or meanings of the word "regular". One definition that appears to be relevant is "recognized as formally correct". If the set fine, as in the case at bar, is incorrectly recorded on the certificate, it simply cannot be regular on its face and must be quashed." In my case, the HTA section is incorrectly stated... or the offence is incorrectly stated... and/or the set fine is incorrectly stated. In any case, the ticket has a significant error that renders it confusing, and makes it not "formally correct". It is not simply having the street misspelled by a letter, or a misspelling in my address, or some other minor mistake that would not affect the ticket. Citing the wrong HTA section for the offence committed is a substantive error, similar to London v Young. Thoughts?
@argyll,
To clarify, this is what is written on the ticket in each section. In "quotes" is what the officer has written.
Did commit the offence of: "Fail to surrender permit for motor vehicle."
Contrary to: "Highway Traffic Act"
Section: "128"
Set fine of: "$85.00" / Total Payable: "$110.00"
But, as per above, s.128 is about speeding and has nothing to do with "fail to surrender permit". Again, I believe the officer wrote s.128 simply because they were operating a radar trap at the time and that is what was likely on their mind.
So, the whole point is, what really IS the ticket for? Speeding? If so, the set fine is wrong.
Failure to surrender permit? If so, the HTA section cited is wrong. Either way, the ticket is misleading, inconsistent, confusing, incorrect... Effectively, the argument is that the ticket is not "complete and regular on its face." Per London v Young (which was about incorrect set fines on a bunch of tickets), the judge states in paragraph 30:
"The Oxford English Dictionary, 2nd ed., Vol. XIII, at p. 523, contains a number of definitions or meanings of the word "regular". One definition that appears to be relevant is "recognized as formally correct". If the set fine, as in the case at bar, is incorrectly recorded on the certificate, it simply cannot be regular on its face and must be quashed."
In my case, the HTA section is incorrectly stated... or the offence is incorrectly stated... and/or the set fine is incorrectly stated. In any case, the ticket has a significant error that renders it confusing, and makes it not "formally correct". It is not simply having the street misspelled by a letter, or a misspelling in my address, or some other minor mistake that would not affect the ticket. Citing the wrong HTA section for the offence committed is a substantive error, similar to London v Young.
Oh, one more question... if this goes to trial - could any portion of the ticket be changed under Provincial Offences Act s. 34? eg. could the ticket be amended so that the HTA section cited is changed to the correct section 7? Or do you think at early resolution the prosecutor will see this and just quash it themselves? Side question: does a prosecutor at early resolution even have the authority to quash a ticket?
Oh, one more question... if this goes to trial - could any portion of the ticket be changed under Provincial Offences Act s. 34? eg. could the ticket be amended so that the HTA section cited is changed to the correct section 7? Or do you think at early resolution the prosecutor will see this and just quash it themselves?
Side question: does a prosecutor at early resolution even have the authority to quash a ticket?
The fine is not the issue but I am worried about insurance rates. First speeding ticket in my life Any suggestions on how to handle this? I can't afford to spend a day at the court
So was at court today in Orillia for a friend, and I had submitted a couple notice of motion a couple weeks ago that I wanted to deal with before arraignment. I met with prosecutor before hand, and it went something like this:
Prosecutor: "Do you have the case law?"
Me: "What do you mean?"
Prosecutor: "Do you have the case law for your motion?"
Me: "All the case law is quoted in the motion that I…
1)failure to change address on license (i got married a couple of months earlier and moved)
2) license plate not fully visible
I got pulled over because I had 2 letters peeling off my license plate. I know ignorance isn't a defense, but I really had no idea that this was an issue. Plus, you see many cars on the road with peeling plates. I got both tickets and…
I was driving around 140km/h on a 100km/h posted on the highway. I was in the fast lane. The officer was very nice and reduced it to no points and just 15km/h over.
I only have my G2.
1. Will this affect me taking the G test next month?
2. I am very grateful for the officer lowering the ticket... should I just pay the 52.5$ and leave it as is.. I am a secondary driver under my dads name and we have…
Hi, thanks in advance for the help. Been driving for 10 years, clean record until today when I got slapped with two tickets. First: going 135 at 100 on the 401, second: not having a valid sticker (I recently moved and completely forgot about it)
My friend tells me I should fight the speed ticket, if anything to reduce the fine and points. Would be alot of help if anyone could walk me through…
My wife, who has never had a traffic ticket in her life, just got 11 points.
Two tickets: "following too closely" and "failure to stop"
She was on a residential street and was behind a car at a crosswalk waiting for a pedestrian. Pedestrian crossed, they continued. Cop was drivig towards them down a side street , and as they passed he went after my wife.
I was driving in mid lane and was following a line of cars around speed limit.
The vehicle in front of me was large and I decided to change to the left lane to get better line sight.
As soon as I entered the left lane, I saw the car in front of me approximately 200m away stopped dead (for some odd reason, there was more traffic on the left lane).
Over the last few months I have received several parking tickets from the City of Kitchener. I haven't paid any of them and have attempted to dicuss the situation with the parking authority of the City, however, they're very unreceptive and defensive.
I work at a downtown construction site....ironically a Court House. The site takes up a whole city block, of which ONE side has 2 hour parking…
I was driving on a teusday night in the rain and fog at whites and highview by St. Mary CSS in Pickering, ON. At the time I was waiting at a red light to make a left north onto whites. There was also a car on the opposite side of the intersection making a left. The cars beams were pointed almost directly at my face and as a result, with the combination of the rain and fog, I…
I am new to this website and this is my first post so please forgive me if I've put this question in the wrong place. Please bear with me until I learn the ropes a bit.
So here are my questions:
Antique cars and hot rods (1930's- early '60's) and seat belt use in Ontario. If these vehicles never came from the respective factories with any seat belts, do they have to be retrofitted ?
OK so Jshreck has been taking some heat for the concept of providing the DL as being not required and therefore inadmissable in court. Personally, I think that argument would fall on deaf ears in the lower court and any chance at victory would have to be in the highest court. That would be quite something. When pigs fly I think, but along that line of thought, allow me to continue.......
I have a court date soon and am wondering whether the officers just read off their disclosure notes when interrogated.
Basically, according to the disclosure notes and the said distances and speeds quoted, by doing some simple math it just doesn't add up. My concern is whether the officer can change his story when on the stand after maybe realizing this?
Last week I was driving home from college in the sauga area. I drive a 1995 Chevy Monte Carlo v6 which I've owned since 2000, I really haven't done anything to the car except tinted windows (not completely darken) and some rims, and Nothing Engine wise. Anyway I look in my rear view mirror and out of no where i see cherry flashing. When pulled over the officer asked do you…
I was charged 2 days ago with RED LIGHT - FAIL TO STOP and set fined $150 and I guess 3 points. I was driving turning left on the intersection with a traffic light, and when I jst about to turn left the light turned to orange and I didn't have enough time to stop. Once I turned I saw the light turned to red and 2seconds later I saw a police beacon flashing through my rear-view mirror. It…
I figured pleading not guilty is the same as saying it was signed which is stupid. A friend of mine told me I could plead guilty with explanation and try to get the fine reduced when I come in.
So this Friday I was stopped by a local officer for going 110 in a 80zone. He also claims I was going 105 in a 50zone,which we literally passed when he stopped me as I was braking. It has been 3 days already and I can't seem to locate my ticket on their Internet site "pay ticket". Is there a way to determine if he has filed for certificate of offence to the courts? It has been 3 days I presume…
My trial date is in a couple days for a speeding ticket (york region) and i am nervous it is my first ticket ever as well as first trial
I did notice my ticket was filed beyond 7 days, 10 days after the day i got the ticket to be exact, which is stamped on the ticket. is this enough to have it dismissed?
If you look close enough, beside the drivers' side "A" pillar you will see a white circle = front antenna of Genesis radar......plus look above the dash pad...there is the Spectre RDD.