So a family member is going to represent me in court. Still haven't received disclosure yet despite requesting three times over the past 3 months. However, I have all fax receipts along with tracking number, notice of trial, but seemed to have misplaced the original ticket. (Still have a week to dig it out). But if I can't, will this be a problem? The notice of trial has everything on it I believe, so hopefully this will suffice should this be work case scenario. Also, any last second tips will be helpful! The plan is to plead not guilty, accept no "deals". First try to get the case dismissed then if not at the very least adjourned. Thanks!
So a family member is going to represent me in court. Still haven't received disclosure yet despite requesting three times over the past 3 months.
However, I have all fax receipts along with tracking number, notice of trial, but seemed to have misplaced the original ticket. (Still have a week to dig it out).
But if I can't, will this be a problem?
The notice of trial has everything on it I believe, so hopefully this will suffice should this be work case scenario.
Also, any last second tips will be helpful!
The plan is to plead not guilty, accept no "deals". First try to get the case dismissed then if not at the very least adjourned.
The court will have the original document so no worries there except that, if there were any typo's on the original you won't know about them. The only thing I can add is that if the crown hands you disclosure right before the trial, accept it but, try for an adjuornment based on "more time to read it......" and make sure the JP notes that this is the crowns' delay, not yours. Good luck.
The court will have the original document so no worries there except that, if there were any typo's on the original you won't know about them.
The only thing I can add is that if the crown hands you disclosure right before the trial, accept it but, try for an adjuornment based on "more time to read it......" and make sure the JP notes that this is the crowns' delay, not yours.
Good luck.
http://www.OHTA.ca OR http://www.OntarioTrafficAct.com
Thanks So accept disclosure even if its right beforehand? I thought I read somewhere that you should deny it until after or tell them to provide it after? Regardless, it should be adjourned worst case scenario right? As disclosure on the date = not enough time to form a defence? Thanks again!
Thanks
So accept disclosure even if its right beforehand? I thought I read somewhere that you should deny it until after or tell them to provide it after?
Regardless, it should be adjourned worst case scenario right? As disclosure on the date = not enough time to form a defence?
Make sure that you tell the JP that you did not receive disclosure until minutes before the trial, and therefore you cannot make full answer and defence to the charge without a proper review of the evidence... kinda what Reflections was saying... Adjourned should be worst-case scenario.
Make sure that you tell the JP that you did not receive disclosure until minutes before the trial, and therefore you cannot make full answer and defence to the charge without a proper review of the evidence... kinda what Reflections was saying...
Adjourned should be worst-case scenario.
* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca
So just an update, my offense date was last February, had the trial recently (within the week) and no disclosure received despite making the three attempts over previous months. Administration noted that they didn't receive my registered mail request, however my request also didn't have the officers # on it? Not sure if that makes a big difference.... Anyhow, the trail was adjoured to March of next year. This puts it just over the 12 month offense date. (12 months 3 days to be exact) Has an 11b been born? Also, right after the trial I asked the officer for the disclosure notes and he provided. Is this necessarily bad? EDIT: Also, the disclosure provided was hand written where my request specifically states typed up, any insights? Just trying to position myself optimally... Thanks!
So just an update, my offense date was last February, had the trial recently (within the week) and no disclosure received despite making the three attempts over previous months. Administration noted that they didn't receive my registered mail request, however my request also didn't have the officers # on it? Not sure if that makes a big difference....
Anyhow, the trail was adjoured to March of next year. This puts it just over the 12 month offense date. (12 months 3 days to be exact)
Has an 11b been born?
Also, right after the trial I asked the officer for the disclosure notes and he provided. Is this necessarily bad?
EDIT: Also, the disclosure provided was hand written where my request specifically states typed up, any insights? Just trying to position myself optimally...
Guess it wont let me edit it more, but apparently they agreed that they received my disclosure request in Sept, but once again emphasized "officers # was not disclosed". Someone else attended the trial for me. It SHOULD be the crown's fault for adjourment no? Is there any way to verify this? I guess if I follow through with 11b procedures and they argue that adjourment was my fault, I can argue it back no?
Guess it wont let me edit it more, but apparently they agreed that they received my disclosure request in Sept, but once again emphasized "officers # was not disclosed". Someone else attended the trial for me.
It SHOULD be the crown's fault for adjourment no? Is there any way to verify this? I guess if I follow through with 11b procedures and they argue that adjourment was my fault, I can argue it back no?
Has anyone ever requested disclosure a second time after receiving it the first? Specifically, the officer didn't provide a typed up version of his notes and his writing is very difficult to read.... Not sure how this'll hold up in court though. Also, while I have someone here, whats the best way to request for court transcripts? Thanks!
Has anyone ever requested disclosure a second time after receiving it the first?
Specifically, the officer didn't provide a typed up version of his notes and his writing is very difficult to read.... Not sure how this'll hold up in court though.
Also, while I have someone here, whats the best way to request for court transcripts?
If you have a legitimate concern about inadequate disclosure (due to being illegibile or any other reason) then you would be well advised to continue to make good faith attempts to rectify the issue before you bring it up in court. In my experience, JPs don't like people using the fact that they didn't get everything they asked for the first time to ambush the crown at a trial. When that happens, if you haven't made subsequent attempts, they usually just adjourn to all the crown to provide disclosure. It's not a trump card to get the charges withdrawn. That being said, some crowns take the position that they don't need to provide you with a typed copy at all. If they say that, then it is open to you to argue the point at the next court date. With respect to transcripts, the only way to order them is through the court. If you go to the counter, the clerk will likely have a form that you can fill out to request them.
If you have a legitimate concern about inadequate disclosure (due to being illegibile or any other reason) then you would be well advised to continue to make good faith attempts to rectify the issue before you bring it up in court. In my experience, JPs don't like people using the fact that they didn't get everything they asked for the first time to ambush the crown at a trial. When that happens, if you haven't made subsequent attempts, they usually just adjourn to all the crown to provide disclosure. It's not a trump card to get the charges withdrawn.
That being said, some crowns take the position that they don't need to provide you with a typed copy at all. If they say that, then it is open to you to argue the point at the next court date.
With respect to transcripts, the only way to order them is through the court. If you go to the counter, the clerk will likely have a form that you can fill out to request them.
12 months + 3 days, if the delay was charged to the Crown, is enough for an 11B. Go for it.
12 months + 3 days, if the delay was charged to the Crown, is enough for an 11B. Go for it.
* The above is NOT legal advice. By acting on anything I have said, you assume responsibility for any outcome and consequences. *
http://www.OntarioTicket.com OR http://www.OHTA.ca
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