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Interpretation of reasonable inspection upon the demand
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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 4:10 pm 
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Hello everyone, My name is Mitchell Powell and I am a Police Foundations student in Orillia, Ontario.

I was recently charged with the offense of "Failure to Surrender License". This is a copy of my formal complaint that I still have not issued. Some information is starred out for the officers privacy.


Quote:
Complaint against Officer D. ***** (Offence number *****6)

On May **, 2009 Mitchell ***** (myself) noticed a abundance of police officers (OPP --> Highway Saftey Division) doing a

routine aerial speed trap set up on the ******* Av. offramp. At this time I was enrolled and currently academically studying

Police Foundations at the Orillia Campus of Georgian College. I pulled over my car off the road (Aprox.*****am), and I was

taking pictures and waving to the fellow officers doing the speed traps. I was not only doing this out of sheer excitement and

admiration but also because I knew the pictures would be a invaluable asset in later assignments. I personally strive to do the

best I can academically and I jumped at the chance to watch my HEROES do some of there finest work. Quite a few officers would

wave/nod back to me, I was under the assumption they did not mind.

Later that day after my Police Foundations classes ended (Aprox. ****) I was driving my car near the same section to snap some

more pictures. I then noticed D. ***** driving his highway safety police vehicle and I then followed it assuming he was

travelling to the speed trap again. I was extremely excited, I was honestly shaking. I love Police officers, and I still do. I

don't want to come across as a freak of nature. Some people get excited when they see really fancy cars, I get excited when I

see Police officers and Police cars. I have a completely clean criminal record, as does my family.

Mr. ***** then signaled me to pull over. I thought this was strange and when he approached I asked him what was up. He said

"Why are you taking pictures of me and my cruiser". I replied that I was in a Police foundations class and I was interested in

the Highway Safety Division. He then demanded to see my drivers license and insurance. I told them that unless I was being

charged with an offense I had the legal right to retain my identification. I then told them my name was Mitchell ****, and that

I live at ******, *****, Ontario and I was insured under my own name. He was obviously infuriated. I was not trying to be

evasive by any means, I was brought up in a military family and that the right's we fight for as Canadian Solders should be

exercised to the fullest extent. I was exercising my rights as set out in the Canadian Charter and Rights and Freedoms.


Mr. ***** then told me he could charge me with "Stunt Driving" and that he would take my car. I was completely blown off guard

and I explained too him that I didn't do anything wrong. He informed me that he is the officer, I am the "wannabe officer" and

he can charge me with whatever he likes. He explained the minimum fine was $2,000 and they take my car. He then walked away,

this was when I got my identification.

Another officer walked up to my car and asked what I was doing. He explained that Police Officers are leery when people follow

him and recently he was briefed on possible intelligence gathering for the G8 Summit. I explained to him that I was just taking

pictures for my class, and that I was extremely sorry and it would never happen again.

Mr. ***** then returned to my car with a ticket, I was relieved to see that it was a "Failure to surrender license" ticket. I

had my license in my hand and I said sir here is my license, I was only exercising my rights I did not want to come off as a

*EDIT*. He said that he already wrote the ticket and to explain it to the courts. I told him again that I did nothing wrong

and I started crying, I explained I was only taking pictures for personal pleasure/future assignments and that I would never

take pictures again.

He repeated, saying take it up with the courts.

My complaint is that Mr. ***** threatened to charge me with an offense I didn't commit, solely due to the fact that I

exercised my federal rights as a Canadian.

It's ironic, before my offense in my communications for police class I argued that Canada was the greatest country to be a

resident of, due to the fact that individual rights and freedoms are secured. Not even one hour later a police officer

threatens to take my only possession I have (my car) issue me a $2,000 fine for a crime he knew I didn't commit. Solely based

on the fact I exercised my rights in refusing to display identification, he made it clear I was pulled over for taking pictures

of them.


Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms

8. Everyone has the right to be secure against unreasonable search or seizure.

9. Everyone has the right not to be arbitrarily detained or imprisoned..

10. Everyone has the right on arrest or detention
a) to be informed promptly of the reasons therefor;
b) to retain and instruct counsel without delay and to be informed of that right; and
c) to have the validity of the detention determined by way of habeas corpus and to be released if the detention is not lawful.



I am under the impression that this officer violated section 8. as I was unrightfully forced to identify myself, even though I was not lawfully required to do

so.

I am under the impression that this officer violated section 9. as I was detained for no lawful reason.

I am under the impression that this officer violated section 10. as he refused to inform me of any wrongdoing until I rightfully refused to allow to seize my

identification.

I personally believe he is a good kind man, who does a great service for this great Provence. However I am sincerely afraid of

the OPP now, I now even refuse to drive on highways when I can so I can avoid any contact with them. I cannot afford to have to

my car taken from me if the officer chooses.

May I add, I extend my sincere gratitude to the officer who approached me while Mr. ***** was in his vehicle. He calmly

explained to me what I was doing could be miss-interpreted. This sole man is what kept me from ceasing my relations with the

Police Foundations class.

Thank-you for taking the time to read this.

Mitchell *****
********************


I do remember, in class we learned of a landmark case that the supreme court stated that proving of licensing and insurance is a search, and stopping a vehicle is a seizure. I cannot find this case as I do not know where too look. I asked a member of the TPS and she stated that she knew of such case, and when it was brought forth all the TPS officers were briefed that random stops are unconstitutional.

Does anyone know of the case I am citing?

What course of action should I take, I am afraid of doing anything but paying the ticket because the officer made it very clear he writes the rules and he can charge me with whatever he wants. I was following him doing 30km/hr in a 50km/hr industrial zone. I was driving with utmost caution is a 1999 sedan.

Again, I know I should not have been taking pictures earlier that day; it was selfish.

Any help?

"Every driver of a motor vehicle or street motor vehicle shall carry his or her licence with him or her at all times while he or she is in charge of a motor vehicle or street car and shall surrender the licence for reasonable inspection upon the demand of a police officer or officer appointed for carrying out the provisions of this Act."


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Re: Interpretation of "reasonable inspection upon the d
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 6:54 pm 
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TridentX2 wrote:
I do remember, in class we learned of a landmark case that the supreme court stated that proving of licensing and insurance is a search, and stopping a vehicle is a seizure. I cannot find this case as I do not know where too look. I asked a member of the TPS and she stated that she knew of such case, and when it was brought forth all the TPS officers were briefed that random stops are unconstitutional.

Does anyone know of the case I am citing?

"Every driver of a motor vehicle or street motor vehicle shall carry his or her licence with him or her at all times while he or she is in charge of a motor vehicle or street car and shall surrender the licence for reasonable inspection upon the demand of a police officer or officer appointed for carrying out the provisions of this Act."


I do not know the particular case, but it was basically a judgement bearing in criminal court that judges want a legitimate reason the vehicle was stopped (ie HTA infraction, traffic complaint, eratic driving, suspicious vehicle, RIDE). I can never ever recall it being a seizure, but every stop is of course a detention.

Every driver must surrender the licence upon demand to the police. The police will then reasonably inspect the licence and confirm that the licence is legit. (yes, I have seen altered licences)

In our area, we have officers threatened on the highway, threatening notes left on garbage bags in a uturn, homemade steel spike belts placed in uturns and threatening phone calls.

_________________
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca


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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 8:40 pm 
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That is pathetic, I can't believe people would do that. What if it was there family that was in need of assistance? Sad.

Also..

Assuming that what I wrote was correct, was the stop legal?

ALSO.

Last time I pled non gulity on the ticket, I had a "Early Resolution" appearance. Do they do this with non-moving violations as well? What could I have it reduced too?

Also, does this offence hinder me in any sort of fashion? Insurance, etc.


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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 10:20 pm 
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TridentX2 wrote:
Assuming that what I wrote was correct, was the stop legal?.


You mentioned the answer already

Quote:
He calmly explained to me what I was doing could be miss-interpreted

_________________
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca


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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 10:23 pm 
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Again, sorry for the confusion.

That was the second cop who confronted me about taking pictures earlier that day.


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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2009 11:27 pm 
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Quote:
In our area, we have officers threatened on the highway, threatening notes left on garbage bags in a uturn, homemade steel spike belts placed in uturns and threatening phone calls.


I can't believe this s***!!! It's not the constable's fault that he has to do his job based on the guidelines that come from higher up above. In any case, even if he is a real jerk, that doesn't justify causing a human being physical harm. I hope those a-holes get caught and have the book thrown at'em.

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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 12:55 am 
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hwybear wrote:
In our area, we have officers threatened on the highway, threatening notes left on garbage bags in a uturn, homemade steel spike belts placed in uturns and threatening phone calls.


:shock: :shock: :shock:

Holy s***. Where do people come up with this sort of stuff? To go so far as to booby-trap a U-turn bay is just whacko. :shock: :shock: :shock:

TridentX2 wrote:
Assuming that what I wrote was correct, was the stop legal?


From what I read, yes, as hwybear said.

TridentX2 wrote:
Last time I pled non gulity on the ticket, I had a "Early Resolution" appearance. Do they do this with non-moving violations as well? What could I have it reduced too?


In most cases, yes. If not, you could call the Prosecutor's office to try to arrange to meet to plea-bargain or discuss your options.

TridentX2 wrote:
Also, does this offence hinder me in any sort of fashion?


As far as insurance goes, with most companies, this infraction should not have any effect on your rates.


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Re: Interpretation of "reasonable inspection upon the d
PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 4:01 am 
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Location: South Western Ontario
hwybear wrote:

"Every driver of a motor vehicle or street motor vehicle shall carry his or her licence with him or her at all times while he or she is in charge of a motor vehicle or street car and shall surrender the licence for reasonable inspection upon the demand of a police officer or officer appointed for carrying out the provisions of this Act."


Every driver must surrender the licence upon demand to the police. The police will then reasonably inspect the licence and confirm that the licence is legit. (yes, I have seen altered licences)



I'm only trying to stir the pot a little, but for argument's sake: If the vehicle was pulled over and the person sitting in the 'driver's seat' was not actually OPERATING or IN CHARGE of the vehicle, does this still make the person the "driver of the motor vehicle"? More specifically, if I, the owner of a motor vehicle, am standing beside the vehicle but not obviously driving it, am I still the driver?

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-------------
"Bad laws are the worst sort of tyranny." - Edmund Burke"

"Never forget that everything Hitler did in Germany was legal" - MLK Jr.


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Re: Interpretation of "reasonable inspection upon the d
PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 6:51 am 
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Slyk wrote:
hwybear wrote:

"Every driver of a motor vehicle or street motor vehicle shall carry his or her licence with him or her at all times while he or she is in charge of a motor vehicle or street car and shall surrender the licence for reasonable inspection upon the demand of a police officer or officer appointed for carrying out the provisions of this Act."


Every driver must surrender the licence upon demand to the police. The police will then reasonably inspect the licence and confirm that the licence is legit. (yes, I have seen altered licences)



I'm only trying to stir the pot a little, but for argument's sake: If the vehicle was pulled over and the person sitting in the 'driver's seat' was not actually OPERATING or IN CHARGE of the vehicle, does this still make the person the "driver of the motor vehicle"? More specifically, if I, the owner of a motor vehicle, am standing beside the vehicle but not obviously driving it, am I still the driver?


All depends on who has the keys

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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2009 11:15 am 
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FiReSTaRT wrote:
Quote:
In our area, we have officers threatened on the highway, threatening notes left on garbage bags in a uturn, homemade steel spike belts placed in uturns and threatening phone calls.


I can't believe this s***!!! It's not the constable's fault that he has to do his job based on the guidelines that come from higher up above. In any case, even if he is a real jerk, that doesn't justify causing a human being physical harm. I hope those a-holes get caught and have the book thrown at'em.


Never found out who these ppl are.

2 different uturns had the homemade steel spike belts.....it was photographed and measured.....about 1ft x 2ft ...1/8th inch steel, with 6 angled steel points, grinded to a point. One was placed in a gravel uturn and the other on the edge of a paved uturn where cruiser tire tracks routinely drop into. One was observed, so the remainder of the working shift had to check all uturns and found the other.

_________________
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca


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Re: Interpretation of reasonable inspection upon the demand
PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2009 9:46 am 
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TridentX2 wrote:
...He informed me that he is the officer, I am the "wannabe officer" and he can charge me with whatever he likes.


hit "Voice Record" on your cell phone next time ;)


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