Daughter just got ticket for above.Backing out of driveway with high snowbanks obscuring vision. Backed out far enough to see a vehicle coming,stopped,the vehicle didn't brake but went to go around her,lost control and hit tree.Can she actually get this ticket.Plus ticket says 2008!Can she get off just for this date error?
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jcspeziale
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"Failing to yield from driveway"fine-no subsection
Daughter just got ticket for above.Backing out of driveway with high snowbanks obscuring vision. Backed out far enough to see a vehicle coming,stopped,the vehicle didn't brake but went to go around her,lost control and hit tree.Can she actually get this ticket.Plus ticket says 2008!Can she get off just for this date error?
Last edited by jcspeziale on Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:30 am, edited 2 times in total.
Re: "Failing to yield from driveway"fine-no subsection
Just a simple date error is not enough to throw the ticket out. Now the other driver might be facing stunt driving or careless driving for losing control. Can you provide us with more information? What was the actual OHTA subsection that your daughter was charged with?
Just a simple date error is not enough to throw the ticket out.
Now the other driver might be facing stunt driving or careless driving for losing control.
Can you provide us with more information? What was the actual OHTA subsection that your daughter was charged with?
"The more laws, the less justice" - Marcus Tullius Cicero
"The hardest thing to explain is the obvious"
Ontario Traffic Ticket | Ontario Highway Traffic Act
"The hardest thing to explain is the obvious"
Ontario Traffic Ticket | Ontario Highway Traffic Act
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jcspeziale
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- Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 7:15 pm
Need advice-pulling out of driveway/wrong date
The officer did not write in the section part Thanx
The officer did not write in the section part
Thanx
Re: "Failing to yield from driveway"fine-no subsection
Your other thread says it was "Fail to Yield". This one says "Fail to Yield from Driveway". My unprofessional opinion is that the "Fail to Yield from Driveway" charge IS specific enough to warrant a conviction. If it just says, "Fail to Yield", that could apply to various sections of the HTA and would justify a dismissal if she motions for one (arguing that it is not possible to prepare a defense due to the lack of detail on the charging document).
Your other thread says it was "Fail to Yield".
This one says "Fail to Yield from Driveway".
My unprofessional opinion is that the "Fail to Yield from Driveway" charge IS specific enough to warrant a conviction. If it just says, "Fail to Yield", that could apply to various sections of the HTA and would justify a dismissal if she motions for one (arguing that it is not possible to prepare a defense due to the lack of detail on the charging document).
Re: "Failing to yield from driveway"fine-no subsection
As ticketcombat tell us here, the justice cannot make you pay this ticket because no subsection is a fatal error. The crown does not have enough information to charge you (or your daughter) if there is no subsection - they do not even know what offense she had supposedly committed. There are a couple defense strategies that are available, in this case.
As ticketcombat tell us here, the justice cannot make you pay this ticket because no subsection is a fatal error. The crown does not have enough information to charge you (or your daughter) if there is no subsection - they do not even know what offense she had supposedly committed. There are a couple defense strategies that are available, in this case.
"The more laws, the less justice" - Marcus Tullius Cicero
"The hardest thing to explain is the obvious"
Ontario Traffic Ticket | Ontario Highway Traffic Act
"The hardest thing to explain is the obvious"
Ontario Traffic Ticket | Ontario Highway Traffic Act
-
jcspeziale
- Newbie
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 7:15 pm
Fail to yield from driveway
Sorry - the ticket is for "fail to yield from driveway" and does not have a subsection written in. It seems that this subsection error may be an out for her?? I spoke to the other party and they tell me they weren't charged for anything. They want to know if I want to pay for the damage to their vehicle or go thru insurance.
Sorry - the ticket is for "fail to yield from driveway" and does not have a subsection written in. It seems that this subsection error may be an out for her?? I spoke to the other party and they tell me they weren't charged for anything. They want to know if I want to pay for the damage to their vehicle or go thru insurance.
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jcspeziale
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- Joined: Sun Jan 25, 2009 7:15 pm
Fail to yield from driveway
According from what I read-I should do nothing and have the justice look at the ticket and hopefully see that the subsection is missing and throw the ticket out?
According from what I read-I should do nothing and have the justice look at the ticket and hopefully see that the subsection is missing and throw the ticket out?
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Reflections
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Re: Fail to yield from driveway
It is not your's or your daughters responsibility to ensure care and control of another vehicle. If the operator of the other car could not avoid your daughter in a residential area without losing control I would wonder what speed they were doing or what else they were looking at???? Do you have some anatomically correct snowwomen??? Was this a snowy day with lots of accidents??? Tell the other driver to go to hell and fix their own damn car. I think that's subtle enough.
jcspeziale wrote:
Sorry - the ticket is for "fail to yield from driveway" and does not have a subsection written in. It seems that this subsection error may be an out for her?? I spoke to the other party and they tell me they weren't charged for anything. They want to know if I want to pay for the damage to their vehicle or go thru insurance.
It is not your's or your daughters responsibility to ensure care and control of another vehicle. If the operator of the other car could not avoid your daughter in a residential area without losing control I would wonder what speed they were doing or what else they were looking at???? Do you have some anatomically correct snowwomen??? Was this a snowy day with lots of accidents??? Tell the other driver to go to hell and fix their own damn car. I think that's subtle enough.
Last edited by Reflections on Mon Jan 26, 2009 2:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
http://www.OHTA.ca OR http://www.OntarioTrafficAct.com
Re: "Failing to yield from driveway"fine-no subsection
By writing your daughter a ticket and not giving the other driver anything, the officer is now placing 100% of the blame for the crash on her. I agree with Reflections here, if the vehicle swerved to avoid a stopped car backing out of the driveway and had serious damage then the speed must've been well above the posted speed limit. Pay that fine and you've confirmed the blame. You cannot even pay the ticket, because it is dated 2008, and the 15 days have passed already. The ticket says you have to pay or dispute prior to 15 days from the date on the ticket, but it is obviously much later than that. Excellent grounds not to pay, because she was given an expired ticket, then you can force fatal error when push comes to shove. Tell the other driver to go through insurance.
By writing your daughter a ticket and not giving the other driver anything, the officer is now placing 100% of the blame for the crash on her. I agree with Reflections here, if the vehicle swerved to avoid a stopped car backing out of the driveway and had serious damage then the speed must've been well above the posted speed limit. Pay that fine and you've confirmed the blame. You cannot even pay the ticket, because it is dated 2008, and the 15 days have passed already. The ticket says you have to pay or dispute prior to 15 days from the date on the ticket, but it is obviously much later than that. Excellent grounds not to pay, because she was given an expired ticket, then you can force fatal error when push comes to shove. Tell the other driver to go through insurance.
"The more laws, the less justice" - Marcus Tullius Cicero
"The hardest thing to explain is the obvious"
Ontario Traffic Ticket | Ontario Highway Traffic Act
"The hardest thing to explain is the obvious"
Ontario Traffic Ticket | Ontario Highway Traffic Act
Re: "Failing to yield from driveway"fine-no subsection
You guys might be right. But I always thought they didn't have to write the section no. down if the wording was specific enough to describe the offence (without any possibility that it could refer to more than ONE offences in the Act). Right of way on entering highway from private road 139. (1) Every driver or street car operator entering a highway from a private road or driveway shall yield the right of way to all traffic approaching on the highway so closely that to enter would constitute an immediate hazard. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 139 (1). If the other driver goes through insurance, the insurance companies will decide fault completely separately from the opinion of the police. It's highly unlikely your daughter will escape ANY fault here. You have to know the other driver will say there was no way they could stop and had to swerve to avoid a serious collision. And does the police report state that your daughter pulled out "blind" due to the snow bank? Not good if it does. You might want to discuss it with your insurance agent first.
You guys might be right. But I always thought they didn't have to write the section no. down if the wording was specific enough to describe the offence (without any possibility that it could refer to more than ONE offences in the Act).
Right of way on entering highway from private road
139. (1) Every driver or street car operator entering a highway from a private road or driveway shall yield the right of way to all traffic approaching on the highway so closely that to enter would constitute an immediate hazard. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 139 (1).
If the other driver goes through insurance, the insurance companies will decide fault completely separately from the opinion of the police. It's highly unlikely your daughter will escape ANY fault here. You have to know the other driver will say there was no way they could stop and had to swerve to avoid a serious collision. And does the police report state that your daughter pulled out "blind" due to the snow bank? Not good if it does.
You might want to discuss it with your insurance agent first.
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