Don't ditch your Car, OR ELSE...

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by: racer on
Mon Dec 22, 2008 9:14 pm

BelSlySTi wrote: Is the ground wet in this photo?
Image
Seems like someone has decided to ram a cop cruiser from the front. Must've had a 172...
"The more laws, the less justice" - Marcus Tullius Cicero
"The hardest thing to explain is the obvious"

www.OHTA.ca & www.OntarioHighwayTrafficAct.com


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by: hwybear on
Mon Dec 22, 2008 10:07 pm

racer wrote:Why not blame City Services Department(s) for not salting/sanding the roads too?
People rely way too much on someone else to do something, then to blame them for their own inaction of driving according to weather. It is Canada, when it is less than 5C, one should start to expect ice on the roads (wind can lower the temperature below freezing).

Do people leave earlier and slow down to destinations....No
Do people stay home rather than going out for nothing...No
Do people switch to winter tires...No
Do they even check their all season tires for tread depth..No
lots more of this stuff....

side note...I missed a family x-mas dinner on Sunday, why..blowing snow, my car never moved an inch. My family at home is more important than filling my face with turkey.
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca


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by: hwybear on
Mon Dec 22, 2008 10:18 pm

admin wrote: HELLOOO! People just don't go into the ditch for no reason. The weather is a HUGE factor!
Absolutely no reason to go in the ditch. Weather is not a factor, it is the motorist who fails to adapt to the weather, again it's Canada, drivers should expect it. If the weather is the factor....why is every vehicle not in?

In respect to vehicles in the ditch, I have probably been to 600 vehicles in the ditch over 12yrs. I can never ever recall someone travelling 40-50km going into the ditch. The vehicles are 3 or more metres from the road, just doesn't happen in the area that I have patrolled, that someone going slow goes that far in!
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca


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by: Radar Identified on
Mon Dec 22, 2008 11:27 pm

People rely way too much on someone else to do something, then to blame them for their own inaction of driving according to weather.
If the entire bill for the crash is going to be shipped to a driver, as opposed to the way it's done now, I don't think partially faulting the city for failing to adequately clear the roads is unreasonable. As for ticketing the driver for not adjusting to conditions, I say that's different. The Ice Storm of '98 was a good example. I was in Ottawa, driving on the Queensway which was a skating rink after five hours of freezing rain, most people going 30 km/h except the ones who later hit the guardrail or ended up in the ditch. One moron in an SUV (look, I've got 4WD, I can go as fast as I want) was going about 100-110, lost control, hit the centre median, spun across three lanes of traffic, hit the opposite wall and then swung back over and hit the centre median again, finally coming to a rest. It was like watching a ping-pong ball, except the ping-pong ball would be smarter. What would you charge him with?

On some occasions a driver who is adjusting his/her speed, having reduced quite a bit, still skids/slides after unexpectedly hitting a patch that's WAY more slippery than what they'd been coping with for 20 minutes. Sometimes they recover with no real problems, other times it's at the absolute worst location, which, it sounds like is what happened to racer's friend. So what should be done in that case? Nothing? Ticket for $110? Bill for $10 000 for towing, car repair, fix guardrail, police investigation, doctor/hospital?
It is Canada, when it is less than 5C, one should start to expect ice on the roads (wind can lower the temperature below freezing).
:? I'm a little lost here. A bridge or overpass can get ice on it in above-zero temperatures because the venturi effect of wind passing under it can lower the temperature of the bridge structure and road to below that of the air around it and cause freezing if there's sufficient moisture... but elsewhere in above-zero temperatures? Of course the temp can drop during the night or if a cold front blows through...


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by: admin on
Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:44 am

hwybear wrote:
admin wrote: HELLOOO! People just don't go into the ditch for no reason. The weather is a HUGE factor!
Absolutely no reason to go in the ditch. Weather is not a factor, it is the motorist who fails to adapt to the weather, again it's Canada, drivers should expect it. If the weather is the factor....why is every vehicle not in?


If that was the case then why do most of the motorist that do fall in the ditches happen to fall in most in winter? Does that mean that those drivers are simply bad drivers then? Or does it sound more logical to assume that Yes the weather was a factor and that resulted in unforeseen events which caused the accident. I don't think its fair to blame the drivers when we get some of the harshest winters in the world here in Canada.

Mother Nature is not always on our side, and to penalize the driver for that would not be a fair law.


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by: hwybear on
Tue Dec 23, 2008 9:53 pm

admin wrote:[
If that was the case then why do most of the motorist that do fall in the ditches happen to fall in most in winter? Does that mean that those drivers are simply bad drivers then? .
Simply drivers not adapting to changing weather and road conditions that frequent in the winter months.

Then it has to be either inattentiveness for not noticing the changing conditions or outright bad driving.

Today was a classic example, I went to several vehicles in the ditch today. Not one driver was under 90km/hr (posted 100km), 80% were in the passsing lane (not the cleanest of the 2 lanes), None of these vehicles had an actual snow tire, one actually was a summer tire. I was travelling
60-75km/hr tops all day with snow tires. I was not passed by any vehicle, nor did I catch others at those speeds.

Twice, not only was I at scene, but fire and EMS arrived, now we have more wasted emergency services, unnecessarily used, possibly taken away from a real emergency, all b/c someone drives off the road.
Add in other cruisers stopping to assist me, and give passing motorists that much more heads up that we are working, slow down, so we don't get hit. Now what would you think when your home is on fire, or loved one needs EMS, someone is actively being assaulted....and that service you require is tied up? Someone will come, but it will be another zone service, thus it takes longer.

I can only come to the conclusion that we will agree to disagree on the issue, but I fully support my boss in attempting to get this law passed.
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca


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by: BelSlySTi on
Sun Jan 04, 2009 11:25 pm

You're Boss or Not , here's a guy who want's legislation passed for Drivers to be held accountable for thier actions, Yet he tries to side step justice in his own backyard!

http://www.thestar.com/news/ontario/article/561407

Fantino and his "Do as I say and Not as I do" attitude can go and police Peawanuck Ontario!

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Last edited by BelSlySTi on Mon Jan 05, 2009 1:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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by: Bookm on
Mon Jan 05, 2009 1:24 pm

Radar Identified wrote:I will say that Fantino looked pretty unimpressed in the photo!
I was too distracted by all the shiny things hanging on him to notice!


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by: Reflections on
Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:37 am

There is no room for a cop that wants to make the laws that he enforces. Having input is one thing, but creating and modifying, no.
http://www.OHTA.ca OR http://www.OntarioTrafficAct.com


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by: BelSlySTi on
Tue Jan 06, 2009 12:16 pm

I would like to know who's footing the Bill for his legal counsel in ongoing legal battles with McHale and the one in his backyard, anyone know of any others?
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by: hwybear on
Tue Jan 06, 2009 12:19 pm

I think there should be room for police through a representative, whether it is the commissioner or chief of police to suggest to government laws that should be in place.

There are many issues not seen by people directly at the front line that police routinely see, then they think a new law is bad.

The government still has to discuss, debate and vote on the issue. It may be the police lobbying for the law, but at the end of the day, the politician voted in by "the people" will decide.
Above is merely a suggestion/thought and in no way constitutes legal advice or views of my employer. www.OHTA.ca


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by: Radar Identified on
Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:31 pm

Police should be able to give input and offer suggestions. You shouldn't have to surrender your rights as a Canadian citizen when you become a police officer. As for legislating or demanding the government do this or that, no, can't agree with that. Fantino was the one who advocated for including 50 km/h over as "stunt driving," and, well, we all know where that went. Yeah, he didn't legislate or enact it but he got really heavily involved in the process.


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by: Reflections on
Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:17 am

hwybear wrote:I think there should be room for police through a representative, whether it is the commissioner or chief of police to suggest to government laws that should be in place.

There are many issues not seen by people directly at the front line that police routinely see, then they think a new law is bad.

The government still has to discuss, debate and vote on the issue. It may be the police lobbying for the law, but at the end of the day, the politician voted in by "the people" will decide.
It seems that Fantino is the voice for all. It's not a bad thing but it looks like the ideas are his and his alone. I personally like a police board, made up of traffic, crime and other units, to voice the opinion of officers. Ontario already has the safest roads in the major provinces, why do we need more and more "parenting"? Listening to the radio today on the 1.5 hour drive to work and officer Woodford reminded the listeners about black ice and how it forms. I learned that one when I was 16 and have not forgotten it. Do we all need refresher courses to renew our licenses???? I am so confused :?: :?: :?:
http://www.OHTA.ca OR http://www.OntarioTrafficAct.com


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by: BelSlySTi on
Sat Jan 17, 2009 6:49 pm

Wait till Julian hears about this, wonder what detachment these guys will be shipped off to next week!

http://www.torontosun.com/news/torontoa ... 58141.html
ONTARIO -- Two OPP officers have been injured in a two vehicle crash north Brampton on Saturday that involved two of their own cruisers.
The crash happened near the intersection of King Street and Torbram Road in Caledon just before 2 p.m.
The officers were responding to a 911 call in the area. Police say both officers suffered minor injuries.
The officers were responding to reports of a domestic assault inside a home on King Street. When they arrived, a suspect was leaving the home causing one cruiser to slam on its breaks to avoid colliding with the suspect's vehicle which resulted in the first cruiser being rear-ended by a second cruiser following in pursuit.
The victim of the assault has been airlifted to hospital with serious head injuries.
Last edited by BelSlySTi on Sat Jan 17, 2009 11:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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