Hi, Last week while driving my daughter to school, after coming to an admittedly short stop and go at a 3-three way stop and turning at the intersection, I was waved over by an officer. I was surprised to have been pulled over as I felt that I had stopped, even if it was a quick stop. When I asked the officer if I had rolled through the stop sign, he said he was only pulling over people where it was obvious. The officer was in his patrol car and it was situated at a point where only the front bumper of my vehicle would have been visible at the line; the rest of the car would be obscured by a fence and bushes. There were no pedestrians and only one car approaching from the opposite way, about 50-100m from the stop. My exchange with the officer was polite and generally pleasant but, obviously, I disagree with his assessment of my stop. If I felt that I had gone through the stop sign, I wouldn't even contest this charge. In hindsight, even though I was rushing to get my daughter to school, making my stop more deliberate would only have added 2-3 seconds to my travel time, so that's definitely something I'll remember in the future (but at the time I certainly wasn't thinking about that! :oops: ) I've asked to see a prosecutor to discuss the charge. From what I've read here (excellent site btw), in order to avoid demerit points the charge would have to be changed to something else and this is entirely up to the prosecutor. My driving record is relatively clean, with only one ticket about 5 years ago, which was for having a somewhat noisy exhaust on my track car - I think the officer would have let me off but, annoyingly, I had forgot to put my new insurance card in the car, which is what the officer ultimately charged me with. If I decided to take this to trial, I'm not sure I would be able to prove that I stopped, if even for a second; it would be my word against the officer's, which is why I want to see if the prosecutor will change the charge. I do have a few questions though: 1. The officer said he was only stopping people where it was obvious, suggesting that he was letting some people roll through the stop sign. Is this something that I should bring up? Therefore, why can some people roll through but my quick stop and go was considered too quick? 2. Since I do feel that I stopped, if I decide to take this to trial, is it valid for me to ask the officer if his attention was ever off the intersection, even if only for a moment? The intersection was not busy and there were no pedestrians, so it seems possible that the officer might have taken his eyes off the intersection for a brief moment and missed me actually stopping. Is there anything I should say to the prosecutor when asking for a reduced charge? Thanks guys, I'll see if I can get a picture of the intersection.
Hi,
Last week while driving my daughter to school, after coming to an admittedly short stop and go at a 3-three way stop and turning at the intersection, I was waved over by an officer. I was surprised to have been pulled over as I felt that I had stopped, even if it was a quick stop. When I asked the officer if I had rolled through the stop sign, he said he was only pulling over people where it was obvious. The officer was in his patrol car and it was situated at a point where only the front bumper of my vehicle would have been visible at the line; the rest of the car would be obscured by a fence and bushes. There were no pedestrians and only one car approaching from the opposite way, about 50-100m from the stop. My exchange with the officer was polite and generally pleasant but, obviously, I disagree with his assessment of my stop. If I felt that I had gone through the stop sign, I wouldn't even contest this charge. In hindsight, even though I was rushing to get my daughter to school, making my stop more deliberate would only have added 2-3 seconds to my travel time, so that's definitely something I'll remember in the future (but at the time I certainly wasn't thinking about that! )
I've asked to see a prosecutor to discuss the charge. From what I've read here (excellent site btw), in order to avoid demerit points the charge would have to be changed to something else and this is entirely up to the prosecutor. My driving record is relatively clean, with only one ticket about 5 years ago, which was for having a somewhat noisy exhaust on my track car - I think the officer would have let me off but, annoyingly, I had forgot to put my new insurance card in the car, which is what the officer ultimately charged me with.
If I decided to take this to trial, I'm not sure I would be able to prove that I stopped, if even for a second; it would be my word against the officer's, which is why I want to see if the prosecutor will change the charge. I do have a few questions though:
1. The officer said he was only stopping people where it was obvious, suggesting that he was letting some people roll through the stop sign. Is this something that I should bring up? Therefore, why can some people roll through but my quick stop and go was considered too quick?
2. Since I do feel that I stopped, if I decide to take this to trial, is it valid for me to ask the officer if his attention was ever off the intersection, even if only for a moment? The intersection was not busy and there were no pedestrians, so it seems possible that the officer might have taken his eyes off the intersection for a brief moment and missed me actually stopping.
Is there anything I should say to the prosecutor when asking for a reduced charge?
Thanks guys, I'll see if I can get a picture of the intersection.
1. No this will not help you at all, as officers can use their discretion on who/when to issue a ticket. 2. Yes this would be a helpful line of questioning during cross-examination, but by itself will probably not get you off. Since insurance increases are an issue, even with 0 demerit point charges, you would need to specifically know what charge you can accept that will not affect your insurance. Insurance companies do not care about demerits, it is irrelevent to them. A possibility is to ask to be charged as the OWNER of the vehicle instead of the DRIVER. When you are charged as a driver, then it goes on your record and affects your insurance. When you are charged as an owner, it does NOT go on your record and does NOT affect your insurance. How many charges did you get? What were they exactly (name and section number)?
1. No this will not help you at all, as officers can use their discretion on who/when to issue a ticket.
2. Yes this would be a helpful line of questioning during cross-examination, but by itself will probably not get you off.
Since insurance increases are an issue, even with 0 demerit point charges, you would need to specifically know what charge you can accept that will not affect your insurance. Insurance companies do not care about demerits, it is irrelevent to them. A possibility is to ask to be charged as the OWNER of the vehicle instead of the DRIVER. When you are charged as a driver, then it goes on your record and affects your insurance. When you are charged as an owner, it does NOT go on your record and does NOT affect your insurance.
How many charges did you get? What were they exactly (name and section number)?
That's helpful to know, thank you. I assumed there were only certain classes of charges that insurance companies care about, demerit points or not (e.g. speeding, stop sign violation, passing a school bus, etc) It sounds like this is not the case. This might not be a question someone here can answer, I can request what you suggested above from the prosecutor or does it have to be in front of a judge? I drive a manual AWD transmission car and letting the clutch out in 1st gear while the car is still in motion and with engine RPM at idle will cause the car to lurch, which didn't happen. Unfortunately, I'm sure none of this matters as it's my word against the officer's. I guess my 6 year old daughter can't be used as a witness, huh? :lol: I only received the one charge: DISOBEY STOP SIGN - FAIL TO STOP HIGHWAY TRAFFIC ACT 136(1)(a)
jsherk wrote:
Since insurance increases are an issue, even with 0 demerit point charges, you would need to specifically know what charge you can accept that will not affect your insurance. Insurance companies do not care about demerits, it is irrelevent to them. A possibility is to ask to be charged as the OWNER of the vehicle instead of the DRIVER. When you are charged as a driver, then it goes on your record and affects your insurance. When you are charged as an owner, it does NOT go on your record and does NOT affect your insurance.
That's helpful to know, thank you. I assumed there were only certain classes of charges that insurance companies care about, demerit points or not (e.g. speeding, stop sign violation, passing a school bus, etc) It sounds like this is not the case. This might not be a question someone here can answer, I can request what you suggested above from the prosecutor or does it have to be in front of a judge?
I drive a manual AWD transmission car and letting the clutch out in 1st gear while the car is still in motion and with engine RPM at idle will cause the car to lurch, which didn't happen. Unfortunately, I'm sure none of this matters as it's my word against the officer's. I guess my 6 year old daughter can't be used as a witness, huh?
jsherk wrote:
How many charges did you get? What were they exactly (name and section number)?
I only received the one charge:
DISOBEY STOP SIGN - FAIL TO STOP
HIGHWAY TRAFFIC ACT 136(1)(a)
Last edited by justadad on Tue May 10, 2016 2:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.
There is no charge for that as an owner. Some people think that a stop has to be 3 seconds but there is no reference to that in the HTA. If you come to a stop then you have stopped regardless of if it's 0.5 second or 15 seconds. If you're braking then the signal is pretty much when your body moves backwards in the back of the driver's seat.
There is no charge for that as an owner.
Some people think that a stop has to be 3 seconds but there is no reference to that in the HTA. If you come to a stop then you have stopped regardless of if it's 0.5 second or 15 seconds. If you're braking then the signal is pretty much when your body moves backwards in the back of the driver's seat.
Former Ontario Police Officer. Advice will become less relevant as the time goes by !
So the prosecutor has the option (but is not required) to offer you a plea deal. It is totally up to them whether they will do it or not. This would happen before you get up in front of the Justice of the Peace. The car being manual and shifting while still being in motion does not help you, but would actually strengthen the case against you. I am actually not sure if they would allow a 6 year old to testify or not! I suppose if they did, there would still be some question as to whether a 6 year olds testimony would be accurate or not in this scenario. Unfortunately, if it is just your word against an officers, they will usually believe the officer. So the only way you can strengthen your case to win, is to (1) have another witness testify/support your testimony, and/or (2) bring reasonable doubt to the officers testimony when you cross-examine them. For example, if you asked the officer how long you are required to stop for, and the officer says "3 seconds", you would then ask the officer if you did come to a complete stop, but for less than 3 seconds and if they say "yes" you pretty much now have a slam dunk case to win. However the problem is that you have no idea what the officer will say when you ask them these questions. The officer may just say that you did not stop at all, not even for a split second, so this will not help your case.
So the prosecutor has the option (but is not required) to offer you a plea deal. It is totally up to them whether they will do it or not. This would happen before you get up in front of the Justice of the Peace.
The car being manual and shifting while still being in motion does not help you, but would actually strengthen the case against you.
I am actually not sure if they would allow a 6 year old to testify or not! I suppose if they did, there would still be some question as to whether a 6 year olds testimony would be accurate or not in this scenario.
Unfortunately, if it is just your word against an officers, they will usually believe the officer. So the only way you can strengthen your case to win, is to
(1) have another witness testify/support your testimony, and/or
(2) bring reasonable doubt to the officers testimony when you cross-examine them. For example, if you asked the officer how long you are required to stop for, and the officer says "3 seconds", you would then ask the officer if you did come to a complete stop, but for less than 3 seconds and if they say "yes" you pretty much now have a slam dunk case to win. However the problem is that you have no idea what the officer will say when you ask them these questions. The officer may just say that you did not stop at all, not even for a split second, so this will not help your case.
I got ticket for failing to stop at stop sign in Toronto. i heard that the police officer must see the stop line, if there is one, from where he was sitting. That is exactly my case, Is it a strong case? If so do i need a picture to show that there is a stop line and a picture to show that he could not see the stop line from where he was sitting?
I got a ticket, Disobey stop sign, sec 136.1.a on dec 6th
I made a left in an intersection and was pulled over by a police officer in an unmarked car who had been sitting down the road. A classic fishing hole situation. I was genuinely surprised when he stopped me and told me I went through a stop sign without even slowing down. I know to shut up and be polite and take the ticket. I…
Yesterday morning, I rear-ended someone. I was going the speed limit. The sun was directly in front of me and it blinded my windshield and my eyes. At the same time, the person in front of me stopped/slowed down (also due to the sun). I started to slow down but didn't stop and I hit them since I couldn't see anything. I was not driving too close initially. I…
I was driving in the county at night and hit a limousine stretched out side ways across the road. The limo had its lights on and had side lighting as well. The police officer charged me with careless driving because it was "fully lit up".
It took me to the next day to figure out what had happened - what I remember made no sense. What I had run across was a "false visual reference" illusion.
I was on hwy 37 trying to make my girlfriends ganadmas mass and I live an hour away and I had an hour to get there so I was going fast but not 50 over untill some idiot got on my tail soo close that I was to concentrated on him that I kept going faster untill I got pulled over at 147 on an 80 km hwy.
I alreaddy lost 3 points and this time was just the…
Hello, got stopped today for rolling a stop sign. Ticket says failure to stop, but quotes hta 1361b.
Doesn't 1361b mean failure to yield?
Is this a fatal error? Or could it be amended at trial. How can I prepare a defence if I don't know if I'm defending the failure to stop or the failure to yield?
After he was providing me with a ticket for failure to obey to the stop sign (I am pretty sure I stopped but less than 3 seconds recommended by my driver ed. instructor), I know everybody say that..as an excuse.
Then he stopped me again to return the documents.
Any advice and feed back would be really appreciated.
Can you get evidence for whether someone had an advanced green at an intersection? My dad was making a right turn on a red (after stopping) into a plaza parking lot. He got hit by someone making a left turn from the opposite lane. The driver told the officer called to the collision that he had an advance green. My dad said he came out of nowhere which makes me…
So i was driving on Eglinton Avenue East near Rosemount Ave.
The school bus was on the the curb on the opposite side of the road while i was travelling on the middle lane of the three-laned Eglinton Avenue East (five lanes apart plus a raised median island seperating the traffic)
I could not see the school bus as my view of the bus was being obstructed by the cars in front of me and on my left hand…
Lots of good information on getting disclosure from the Crown here.
Now, I am just wondering if I will be relying upon evidence of my own at trial... do I have to voluntarily send this material to the Crown in a reasonable time before the trial, or only if they request disclosure from me?
This morning I had an exam for university. I was studying the entire night and i wanted to catch like maybe 1-2 hours of sleep before the exam so i went to sleep. I woke up like 5 hrs after and realize that I was about to miss my exam. I still could have made it so I asked my dad for his car since I was in a huge rush and he gave it to me.
I went on the highway and I was going at 135 km/h but…
the police officer was in in the opesite oncumming lane he was fallowing another car so close that i was not even able to see his cruser till he was buy he said that i was going 111 in a 80 he said he hade me on radar he only asked for me drivers licencs and never asked for my insurence so on the ticket there no insurence dose enyone think i can beat this i wana take it to cort becuse he was…
Hi I have a couple questions so I'll explain my situation and any advice would be appreciated.
Can't remember exact date so lets call it some time in 2008 I got a fine for $5000.00 for driving without in insurance. I never paid the fine and in 2012 I was pulled over and the officer asked to see my license. Although I had it on me I figured it would be under suspension for the unpaid fine from…
Alright, so I did something really stupid the other day, I was driving down a country road and wanted to hit the curves so I passed 3 cars at once, inadvertently making it up to very much past 50 over (80 limit)... Much to my chagrin there was a cop coming in the opposite direction who immediately skidded on the gravel shoulder and who I thought was 100% going to turn around and pull me over,…
Anyone know how backed this courthouse is? I submitted my ticket for trial at the end of August, and still no letter. Im scared it got lost in the mail, can i call the courthouse and find out my courtdate? Or would i have to go in personally?
I recently received a ticket for failure to use low beams - while following - Ticket was issued Sec 168 (
- it was on the 401 and no one was within 500 meters of me, I was warning a oncoming vehicle that there was an officer hiding (which is not illegal or I could not find a law against it) it was a police vehicle travelling at very high rate of speed in the opposite direction with no lights on…
I received a warning letter from MTO for a 2pts ticket.What happened is that the police officer issued a "unsafe left turn" and then changed the ticket to "failed to signal" at the scene, but she submitted both tickets!!! And I !!!ONLY!!! received the latter ticket from her(I requested trial for "failed to signal"). I recently received notice from MTO that I'm convicted for "unsafe left turn".
Hello everyone! I was given a ticket for using a hand-held communication device while driving. It was 3 am, I was at a stop light and the cop saw me with the my phone in my hand. I told him i was just checking the time on it. I received the notes a few weeks ago ill copy them down below. Any help is appreciated although i believe there's no hope for me. The cop recorded me saying what phone i…
I got pulled over about 15 or so days ago the court till this date has not received the summons what is the legal time period that the court has to follow to accept the summons from the office court says its 15 days is the legal timeframe the officer has to serve it on the court
I requested for disclosure of information two months ago.
I received the radar manual after one month, but not others (including maintenance/calibration record of the radar, certificate of police training). On further pursuit, the prosecutor told me that he did not have them and he did not see why I needed these documents. He said he did not know where to get them when I asked.
Last Friday I was pulled over by an OPP motorcycle cop who informed me I was going 134. I was on the SB 404, I did see him parked under a bridge and when I passed him he was not on his bike.
I'm hoping to get some insight for a defense in this case.
I was in lane 1 and I had a car in front of me, and a car behind me, also there was a car speeding down Lane 3 passing everyone and moved quickly into…
)
