Red Light - Fail to Stop (Disclosure Request)

Hello everyone, on September 25 I was in Toronto and making a right turn on a yellow light. Mid-turn, I noticed a car was turning left from the opposite direction so I fully stopped to allow the car to proceed safely. As there were two lanes in the road that we were both driving into, it would have been a safe turn regardless. The other car ended up being a police car and the PO stared me down, waited for me to pass him and pulled me over. When the officer came over, he mentioned that our conversation was being recorded and that his video is recording as well. He asked if I knew why he was pulling me over and I said it was because I stopped suddenly, to which he responded in the affirmative. He asked for insurance as well, and since I had recently renewed it I had some trouble looking for it. He mentioned he would just take the older one for now and he could see on the computer if it was still in force, so I handed him the older one. He came back with two tickets, one for failure to stop at a red light 144(18) and the other for driving without insurance. As he gave back the insurance I found out that the new insurance card was right behind the older one I gave him and he didn't bother to look behind it.

I have not yet received notice of trial in the mail, but checked online and saw that my court date was set on June 20, 2017 (roughly 9 months away). I sent a disclosure request via certified mail but did not include my phone number as suggested by ticketcombat. Also checked on the website of the Toronto / Scarborough courts and there is no mention that you need to include phone number. However, I have read that the JP and prosecutor can hold it against you if you did not include a phone number or e-mail address. Is there any merit to this or are you under no obligation to include an e-mail address or phone number?

Additionally, let's say I do not receive disclosure after requesting 3 times and show up on the court date and the JP says I should have included a phone number. If the case is adjourned to a later date, it would likely be past the 10 month threshold - would that be enough grounds to file a chapter 11b? Thanks again for your help!

torontoboy89 wrote:

I have not yet received notice of trial in the mail, but checked online and saw that my court date was set on June 20, 2017 (roughly 9 months away). I sent a disclosure request via certified mail but did not include my phone number as suggested by ticketcombat. Also checked on the website of the Toronto / Scarborough courts and there is no mention that you need to include phone number. However, I have read that the JP and prosecutor can hold it against you if you did not include a phone number or e-mail address. Is there any merit to this or are you under no obligation to include an e-mail address or phone number?

You want your disclosure request, so trying to avoid contact isn't some sort of strategy. Is a phone number a requirement? Not necessarily, but give it to them if you have one. If you don't have a phone number for them to use, at least have an email address available. If you're giving them no other option other than snail mail, sure, it could be a problem. Forcing them to snail mail you a letter saying "Your disclosure package is ready, come pick it up" is a bit much. They aren't mailing out disclosure packages like they used to 5 to 10 years ago, nor or they required to.

torontoboy89 wrote:

Additionally, let's say I do not receive disclosure after requesting 3 times and show up on the court date and the JP says I should have included a phone number. If the case is adjourned to a later date, it would likely be past the 10 month threshold - would that be enough grounds to file a chapter 11b? Thanks again for your help!

No. If they've come to the conclusion that the delay is on you, that's your problem. Besides, 10 months is nothing to argue about.

bend wrote:

torontoboy89 wrote:

I have not yet received notice of trial in the mail, but checked online and saw that my court date was set on June 20, 2017 (roughly 9 months away). I sent a disclosure request via certified mail but did not include my phone number as suggested by ticketcombat. Also checked on the website of the Toronto / Scarborough courts and there is no mention that you need to include phone number. However, I have read that the JP and prosecutor can hold it against you if you did not include a phone number or e-mail address. Is there any merit to this or are you under no obligation to include an e-mail address or phone number?

You want your disclosure request, so trying to avoid contact isn't some sort of strategy. Is a phone number a requirement? Not necessarily, but give it to them if you have one. If you don't have a phone number for them to use, at least have an email address available. If you're giving them no other option other than snail mail, sure, it could be a problem. Forcing them to snail mail you a letter saying "Your disclosure package is ready, come pick it up" is a bit much. They aren't mailing out disclosure packages like they used to 5 to 10 years ago, nor or they required to.

torontoboy89 wrote:

Additionally, let's say I do not receive disclosure after requesting 3 times and show up on the court date and the JP says I should have included a phone number. If the case is adjourned to a later date, it would likely be past the 10 month threshold - would that be enough grounds to file a chapter 11b? Thanks again for your help!

No. If they've come to the conclusion that the delay is on you, that's your problem. Besides, 10 months is nothing to argue about.

Thanks for the honest response. If I don't hear back in a month or so, I'll send a follow-up request with other contact details.

Hi there, just an update to the above situation. Back in January the prosecutor's said my disclosure items were ready to be picked up. They did not include the video that I requested

(only officer notes) and so I requested it again that day. I got a call a couple months after saying it was ready to be picked up. I went in early May to pick-up the video, but they said something went wrong and they were unable to find it. They had a DVD but they said that it was the prosecutor's copy, they told me to leave my name and number and they would get back to me. I still haven't heard back and I called again today and they are giving me a bunch of excuses like saying they can't find my original disclosure request and asked me to e-mail my request again, so I did.

My question is, my trial date is coming up soon (June 21, 2017). If I don't hear back from them on the video by then are there grounds to get the charges dismissed due to incomplete disclosure? The incident occurred in September 2016, so the trial date is 9 months afterwards. I have taken days off work two times now to pick up my requested disclosure and followed up a number of times so I think I have done my part to try and get disclosure within a reasonable time frame.

At your first trial date, you will not get the ticket dropped for lack of disclosure. The JP will order prosecutor to get you missing disclosure and set another trial date.